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I've been a little burned out on 1750, GT format games. I'm starting in on some 2500 point list building, and I'm also focusing more on expansions.

I just pored over the cities of death book and got excited. It doesn't really require a whole lot of tweaking to iron out the edition discrepancies. I have the terrain for the most part. I'm actually pretty excited about taking on the challenge of list tech in this expansion.

So, gonna have the Sprue Posse help me iron out our house rules, and I'll probably post those along with our almost finished apocalypse house rules soon. But this post is about theory.

What normal 40k conventions are voided by the dense terrain? Fast attack is pretty crappy in low points games, and looks to be just as bad or worse in cities. Move through cover, assault, and barrage weapons look to be better than they are in standard 40k. what specifically would you add or remove from your own lists if you planned to play some seriously competitive turney style cities of death games? I am interested in any codex you might be playing with. But I'm going to be focusing on orks first.

I have almost no experience with cityfighting in either 4th or 5th. So feel free to start slow with me.

I've got some early theories and some questions specific to cityfighting orks that I'd like to start the discussion with. Bikers and transports seem to lose a lot of their lustre, those dangerous terrain tests look absolutely murderous. With the gaps between buildings being less than 6". There could even be places where battlewagons couldn't physically reside. I usually generate my own cover with orks, and stay the hell away from area terrain with all orks except lootas. With difficult terrain being a certainty, is run now much more important? If I'm going to be running, should I be trading shoota boys for slugga boys? Without transports or bikers, is running going to be the only way to get to enemy held buildings in their own deployment zone? Could trukks with rams be even better here, or will the ram not be enough to make the limited placement of the trukk models worthwhile? Ultimately, how we rule on the building walls interacting with the vehicles will have a lot to do with transport effectiveness. In standard 40k we've been ruling that you can go through the walls just fine, but if your movement wouldn't carry your model completely through, then you have to stop short, losing the extra movement.

I immediately think that a straight up trade of kommandos for lootas is logical and competitive. I'm also contemplating downgrading the shootas to sluggas, and just running. batteries of guns with longer than 24" range seem to lose effectiveness exponentially, so with kannons and lootas being uninteresting. What support and attack units are there to replace them? KFF meks supporting kans seem to be just as good as before, although now DANGEROUSLY slow moving. Are warbosses escorting foot nob units more interesting with the game getting slower and more intimate? Or is the slowness and intimate-ness just a misconception I've created?

Thanks for participating in the discussion, general cityfighting wisdom, and army specific thoughts from all codexes are more than welcome!

Consider also Burnas. In a Cityfight session, a unit of Burnas could be extremely nasty, same with skorcha buggies.

You do still want some shooting - down avenues of approach and such, lootas on a roof would be nasty - but hand to hand becomes more important overall, and close-range firepower tends to trump long-range. Kans and Dreads would be ideal, as would trukks with rams.

i find that deff dreads and kans are a real investment here, mobile killing machines, especially when equipt with skorchas

Also mega armoured nobs are great here as they are already slowed before all the buildings and are unstoppable

Burna boyz + Sewer ratz = awesome

dreads and kanz are good too.

Most people rule that you can go through ruin walls, but ruling the other way can be interesting too. Just make sure you and your opponent are on the same page.

Plug for my 5th ed Cities of death article.....

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/How_to_convert_Cities_of_Death_to_5th_edition_40K

I'm sorry, I'm not at all up to date on the new ork rules. But in my experience, the way to beat down any army in a city fight is by applying extreme pressure on one point of the enemy army for a short time. Therefore any unit that can ignore large terrain pieces, and move quickly, are indispensable.

The slowness of a city fight is not your imagination. However, the ability to move at even normal speed in such contests is of huge tactical advantage. If the orks still have... um Storm boyz? (they're the guys with jump packs right?) And they are a viable unit, then they will be even more so in city fights. Vehicles take a big hit, and being able to field masses of models is a pretty big asset. But if you have a choice between hard hitting speed, and numbers, go with the speed.

Anything that can infiltrate is god in city fights. The huge LOS blocking monstrosities that are buildings will be your favorite places on the board.

My old space marines were all about speed, and infiltrating units. They killed everything. Don't know about orks, but I think that they will be more effective.

In cityfight the flamer is king.

@Tzeentchling Yeah a unit of lootas is still on my radar... High up on a building roof, you still command decent line of sight. I also got a little giggly when i read the ammo dump strategem. My first game will likely contain that strategem in my furthest back building in my quarter. Re-rolling misses with lootas just feels wonderful

@squigherder Yeah. Just worried about their speed, but boy with the amount of fire cut down on this already obscene unit, and with close combat being so important to claim the larger more interactive objectives, I think the dred mob is in for sure.

@bitz. Nice combo, we still rule that you an go through the walls. We just don't like the idea that if your rhino doesn't get all the way across that the entire building has to be moved to accomadate the single vehicle. Especially if that building has fragile models perched on the higher floors. It rarely comes up, but i think its a nice comprimise between inconsequential invisible walls, and impassible terrain. Gonna be reading your article, thanks for putting it up and expect PMs

@Shrike. Somnicide and I had this EXACT same conversation. Very interesting that you bring it up. I initially wrote off bikes and jumpers based on the increased volume of dangerous terrain tests. But as you say, if you become a unit that moves 12" regardless of terrain, in a world where everyone else is basically slow and purposeful, then your maneuvering advantage is huge. It's a gambler move to take these units, but sometimes those cowboy decisions pay off big.

@Orlanth. I didn't mention the flamer much because I'm so used to 5th edition where the flamer is already pretty much king. I haven't seen a unit that didn't have 3+ or 2+ armor that wasn't getting a cover save in 2 tourneys and 30+ games at my house. It seems to me that 5th ed city fight isn't really about adding more cover, but more about blocking long range LOS, and slowing everyone down, and adding risk for taking things like vehicles, jumpers, bikes and deep strikers. That being said, flamers indeed rule in 5th, and they'll be a huge part in anything I write up for cities of death.


Thanks guys! Anyone got any lists for their favorite armies that they'd run in a cityfight tourney?

In apoc, you will fear the fish of fury...