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So a save is a save, and if its invulnerable and its in their stats then you should always get it...but at times when my biker boyz have been in CC for a few turns the whole 'exhaust cloud' excuse for an invulnerable save kinda doesn't make sense cos the bikes have been sitting there for three turns...

so should I admit to my opponent that they probably shouldn't get an invulnerable save and they all get slaughtered, or should I pretend to not notice that they should be very visible and I shouldn't get a saving throw...

what to do? I dont want to be a bad ork

Exhaust cloud is a cover save. Doesn't work in CC.

Bikes do however give the unit a normal 4+ armor save.

And just because they're in CC, doesn't mean they're standing still, they would be peeling out from time to time to get some impetus to their attacks, ringing the models they're engaged with looking for an opportunity to strike, and so on.

a save is a save, but there are three types:

Armour Saves, that maybe takes against all wounds, expect those caused by ranged weapons that have an equal or lower AP statistic and power weapons and monstrous creatures in close combat.

Invulnerable saves that may be taken against all wounds that are not caused by a weapon that specifically says that they may not be takes (C'Tan and GK psycannon for example)

Cover saves may be takes against all wounds caused by ranged weapons that do not specifically say they ignore cover (Template weapons or Vanguard Dragonfire bolts for example). They may not be taken against close combat attacks.

Ork bikers do not have an invulnerable save. They have a cover save. Completely different thing.

See Regwon's post for whether or not they can take it in close combat.

A cover save is like an invulnerable save because it isn't affected by AP values, but I do see your point.

But I reckon it is beardy to use your 4+ cover during many assault phases.

is it fair to use it in the first close combat phase because there'd be a lot of exhaust cloud then when they've just charged!!

A cover save is NOT like and invulnerable save. They are completely different. There are three types of saves: armour, cover, invulnerable. They are three distinct types of saves and have nothing to do with each other.

So no, it is not fair to use in the first round of combat... because it doesn't exist in combat.

Threads like this give the "you make da call" forum a bad name. Exhaust Cloud, as stated in Codex: Orks, 4+ cover save. Rulebook, no cover save in CC. It is useful to both purchase and read the relevant codices and the rulebook itself.

Hmmnn, page 46 of the ork codex does agree with what you both have said...this will make my orks a lot more vulnerable in CC.

now to decide whether the 'twin linked dakkaguns' that it also says on page 46 is true or not!

See the Ork FAQ, available on GW's website, for the answer about the TL dakka guns, and several other typos.

Thanks dietrich

thats german efficiency in action.

why would the twin linked dakka guns be a typo in the rule book?
EDIT: yea i noticed in the back of the book it only says dakka gun not twin linked. hmm thats an odd one lol.

ok i just looked up the FAQ on GW. it states that the dakka gun on a bike IS twin linked. AND its str 5 ap 5 NOT ap 4 like it says in the back of the codex.

Cool job CrackerJacker, I'm a big fan of that stompa conversion you have as your avatar, but its just not fast enough to be in my speed freek horde.

it'd be fun to make some old school gut-busta's and dragsta's though!! maybe even a lifta droppa or two, ever heard of it being done for 40k?

yea i agree on the stompa in my avatar. first time i heard "MR. potato head into a stompa" i laughed and said "ok stompas are now gayer looking" then i craped myself and now i too want a mr potato head stompa lol.
were those in epic? i never played epic if your answer is a yes. BUT they sound pretty awesome. i think the direction my orkses are going is a hybrid of KOS and crap tons of choppas