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I do not have the new 5th ed rule book for myself, I know, I know, I need to get with the times.

But I was wondering if a Tyranid creature with Instictive Behavior that is "Lurking" to get a +1 cover save can also "Go To Ground" and get an additional +1 cover save for total of +2 cover save.

I see no reason why you couldn't but in the next turn you wouldn't get a chance to lurk because you would still be GTG

My understanding of Lurking is that you either move Synapse to them, roll leadership to act as normal, or fall into instinctive behavior (lurking). Synapse is registered at the start of your movement phase, prior to moving any models. To be lurking, your Gaunts had to be away from 12" away from Synapse and you chose not to roll Leadership to try to act normally (or sligshot towards Synapse, whichever). After Going to Ground during your opponent's shooting phase, you are pinned during the next round.

If you did not move Synapse within 12" of the Gaunts last round, there is no way for these Gaunts to roll to act as normal, since they are pinned and cannot do anything. My assumption, then, would be that they are still exhibiting instinctive behavior while having gone to ground.

So they first get the +1 cover save for Lurking, they then get the +1 for GTG, and then on the next turn they would only get the +1 for GTG since they are pinned? Or would the get the +1 on the next round for Lurking since they are suppose to be getting back up after GTG....

Or would they still get the +2....I have no Idea how the GTG rules are written since I do not have the book yet. Could some one type it out for me or summerize it please?

Psyker_9er wrote:So they first get the +1 cover save for Lurking, they then get the +1 for GTG, and then on the next turn they would only get the +1 for GTG since they are pinned? Or would the get the +1 on the next round for Lurking since they are suppose to be getting back up after GTG....

Or would they still get the +2....I have no Idea how the GTG rules are written since I do not have the book yet. Could some one type it out for me or summerize it please?

Units choose to 'go to ground' in their opponent's shooting phase. This effect lasts through the end of the unit's next turn, so at the start of their opponent's next turn your unit is no longer on 'the ground'.

Ok so I think I got it.

First turn they are lurking +1 cover save
Then on enemy shooting phase they GTG +1 cover save
=Total of +2 cover save

Then it's tyranid turn again
GTG cover save is gone and they can not move since they are getting back up
Lurking save is gone since they are getting back up which is the oposite of lurking
=Total of no bonus

Well, that is interesting.... There really is only 2 choices if out of synapse. Roll, or Lurk. I don't think you can do 'neither'. Lurking isn't something you do, as much as what happens when you don't roll.

So on the 'second' tyranid turn, if you were still out of synapse, I think you would be lurking, since you can't move.

technically the option is still there if no synapse is present.

so choose to lurk again or roll w/ no result?


shrug

Thats just it, I dont' think you ahve an option. Since you can't do anything, that means you can't roll; which means you are lurking.

well coredump, you are at odds with all the nid players who claim you can choose not to roll, and also choose not to lurk if you stay motionless, allowing you to secure an objective without fear of your unit breaking.

Just thought I would point this out, interesting that nid players have it going both ways depending on who you ask.

Personally I think if anything you are right, not the concept that you can stand around and not lurk and not roll, but lurking when pinned is a bit dubious, I thought there was RAW to support this but It must have just been a houserule.

Drunkspleen wrote:well coredump, you are at odds with all the nid players who claim you can choose not to roll, and also choose not to lurk if you stay motionless, allowing you to secure an objective without fear of your unit breaking.

Just thought I would point this out, interesting that nid players have it going both ways depending on who you ask.

Personally I think if anything you are right, not the concept that you can stand around and not lurk and not roll, but lurking when pinned is a bit dubious, I thought there was RAW to support this but It must have just been a houserule.

Several nid players disagreed with the tactic of "avoiding lurking" by choosing neither to move nor lurk, stating that the use of the word "alternatively" was exclusionary and thus summed up all available options (ie lurk or roll to move). I have posted the link below.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/216936.page

Coredump and Kirsanth happened to be two of those who disagreed with the tactic you mentioned. I as well . Oh, and I too am a Tyranid player.

I would agree with coredump that since the unit may not choose to move since it is pinned, it would, by default, remain lurking unless within 12" of synapse at the beginning of the controlling player's movement phase.

Drunkspleen, I would say you are right, you can't argue to have it both ways...though I am not sure anyone has yet

At first I thought skipping was RAW but the previous discussion swayed me. Plus, it is better to err on the less advantageous interpretation.

As far as how this interacts w/ GtG, I agree with others, if outside of synapse a unit that was GtG must remain lurking since they cannot move. Think of it as cumpulsory and not really an action. If within synapse though, then they would lose lurking but still be unable to move or shoot.

winterman wrote:Plus, it is better to err on the less advantageous interpretation.

QFT

Drunkspleen wrote:well coredump, you are at odds with all the nid players who claim you can choose not to roll, and also choose not to lurk if you stay motionless, allowing you to secure an objective without fear of your unit breaking.
.

Of course I am... because they are wrong.


When it comes around to the Nid players turn 'again'; they are stuck with a unit of gaunts 13" away from synapse, and they have GtG.
If they do not roll.... then they are lurking. You do not 'choose to lurk', you 'choose to roll'; lurking is what happens if you don't do anything.

The real question, is if you are even allowed to roll? IB says you roll if you 'want to move'. Well, you can't move... but can you still roll if you 'want' to move?
GtG says you can't do 'anything', but doesn't define 'anything'. I know it may seem obvious, but rolling for IB is more of a metagame aspect than actually 'doing' anything. Like you can take Morale tests... can you take IB tests...??

My point..... in the situation where the gaunts are out of synapse, and have previously GtG.... not only *can* they lurk again. By the rules, they may *have to* lurk again. (Since, if they are not allowed to roll, they are lurking)

OTOH, if you allow them to roll, and they fail, they fall back towards synapse, and return to 'normal'

Okay...NOW I got it.

Tyranid turn: Lurking +1 cover save
Enemy shooting phase: Go To Ground +1 cover save
= +2 cover save

Next Tyranid turn: No more GTG and not really getting UP, but getting ready or some bigger brain to tell them what to do. +0 cover save
Since they can not move they automatically Lurk and await some one with a bigger brain to tell them what to do. +1 cover save
= +1 cover save

Thanks for all the feed back