Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey everyone,

as the title says, I'm planning to start with Eldar and don't have a lot of experience with 40k (or tabletops in general), so there would be a few (possibly rather noobish) questions I'd have. If the questions indeed are too stupid and and none of you want to bother, then that's really alright ^^'
I also hope this is the right forum to post this in

On a side note, I've read the rulebook and codex cover to cover a few times and I *think* I at least have some basic insight on how the army works, so it'd be good if answers weren't too general (i.e. "Firedragons are your anti vehicle troops", I know as much )

1) Dire Avengers and Guardian Defenders
I know both seem to have their place in the army, but especially here on dakkadakka (and especially by Stelek) Guardians seem to be preferred over Avengers. Um... why? Is it because of the higher cost of DAs, the lack of versatility (weapon platforms)? What do you prefer to field, personally, and why? For me, they seem to be more or less the same bar the obvious, so honestly I don't really know what to get.

The reason this is a problem for me is because I might get the Eldar battleforce (5 DA incl Exarch, 10 Guardians w/ weapons plat, Waveserpent, Warwalker) and I'm not sure if I should get another box of Avengers (5 seems way too small at any rate) or drop the Avengers and go for 2 Guardian squads

2) Warwalkers and Vypers
Here, again, I would see viability in both units. Warwalkers can dish out an impressive amount of shots, but from reading a few threads here I understand it's difficult to get a coversave for them, plus they are rather slow, especially compared to Vypers. Vypers on the other hand zip around the battlefield, but are less shooty and more vulnerable (open topped?). Since I'm going to start small (500 points first and increasing at 250-ish points steps) I don't want to mix those units really.

For a less mobile army Warwalkers seem to be good as a firing base, while Vypers could be a fast response unit. In a mobile army (the Windrider Host box looks interesting, 9 jetbikes, Autarch on jetbike and 2 Vypers), Warwalkers seem awfully slow, but again, could possibly put some hurt on units from afar in an army that lacks range and anit-vehicle (again, at 500 or so points, this time in a jetbike army), and Vypers being good to stay with the rest of the army.

Keep in mind, all this is my opinion as a beginner, lacking the insight of long-time experience, which is why I'm looking for some input.

3) Are there any units I would be better off trying to avoid? For instance, Shining Spears don't seem to get used often, neither do Warpspiders or Swooping Hawks (only in small qualities). What would a "competetive" list at 500 points look like? (using standard force organization charts it might not be competetive at all Xp)

I think that's it for now, thanks in advance for any advice

Being a new gamer (welcome to the hobby - and to dakka BTW!) I'm afraid I have to give the cliched advice.

Start small!

Eldar are a great army in low points value games. They tend to be fairly forgiving with a good range of options. Until you play a few games, you're not likely to have the best idea about your playstyle and you'll be starting from scratch on good tactics/combos.

With that in mind, my recommended first purchases would be a farseer, a guardian squad with EML (or better still magnetise your weapon mount if your modelling skills are up to it) and either a Dire Avenger squad or a Ranger squad (depending on whether you lean more towards aggresive or defensive)

Your army is now legal and gives you a good base to practice from. As you play you'll naturally pick up ideas about where to go with your build, especially if you play the same armies regularly. Look at where your opponents do well and then find out what in your codex is a good counter-unit to that enemy unit/tactic.

Hope this helps and good luck!

The biggest reason you will see Guardians (Storm Guardians anyway, not many Defender based lists floating round) being used is because they are cheap, you can get 2 flamers and a heavy flamer in a 10 man squad and with a Wave Serpent they do pretty well, avoiding most of the survivability issues by staying in the transport. Avengers are still awesome though, they can be a great tarpit unit if tooled up properly or a pretty decent shooting squad. Particularly if you can't fit in a Wave Serpent they will be better off than Guardians most of the time as they won't die to bolters.

Warwalkers are nasty but as you mention, are very easy to kill. They take a bit of skill to use but put out a hell of a lot of firepower and a full squad of them can be equipped pretty cheaply. Never found mobility to be much of an issue tbh, if in doubt give them missile launchers and sit back. While Vypers can work with some lists there are generally better choices around particularly at small point levels, they have much less firepower than Warwalkers and die very easily.

As for bad units, I think the only true bad ones in the Eldar list atm are Warp Spiders and Swooping Hawks as the roles which they played in 4th are no longer as viable with other units now better at it (light vehicle killers and late game objective takers). Shining Spears are definitely not a bad unit, just one which takes a bit of skill to use, but probably not a unit worth it a 500pts as they are heavy infantry (Terminators etc) killers which you won't see much of at small point limits. The only other bad unit which comes to mind are Support Weapon Battery's, not a unit I've seen used to any great effect.

Eldar competitive lists can take many forms although they tend to do better at higher points when they can afford to pay for all the shiny toys . If going with a fast list them Wave Serpents and Fire Prisms are awesome, take a few Jetbikes to hide behind them to claim in the late game, otherwise for a more foot/firebase based list I recommend Dark Reapers and Wraithlords.

Powerguy mentioned this briefly: Everybody can see that DA's are a good mobile/shooty, unit but sometimes people overlook that DAs are a great tarpit unit. With a defend/shimmershield exarch, they can lock down the dedicated assault units (genestealers, deamon princes, terminators) that give other Eldar units headaches until your own assault units finish what they're doing and arrive to help out. Also a min-sized unit of DAs is the cheapest way to get a (scoring) wave serpent or to make a falcon scoring.

1) That said, a bunch of transported guardian storm squads with flamers is a viable alternative if you're doing more of a spammy list.

2) The major drawback of warwalkers that nobody else has noted yet is that they compete with fire prisms for your heavy slots. Because spiders and hawks aren't viable units anymore, you're likely to have more fast slots available for vypers than heavy slots for warwalkers.

3) At 500 points you will actually dominate games with a bulky unit of Warp Spiders. At point levels of 800 or less, where most vehicles are light and most units are small and static, Warp Spiders own the tabletop. Once you get close to 1000 points though, they're not competitive.

Powerguy wrote:The biggest reason you will see Guardians (Storm Guardians anyway, not many Defender based lists floating round) being used is because they are cheap, you can get 2 flamers and a heavy flamer in a 10 man squad and with a Wave Serpent they do pretty well, avoiding most of the survivability issues by staying in the transport. Avengers are still awesome though, they can be a great tarpit unit if tooled up properly or a pretty decent shooting squad. Particularly if you can't fit in a Wave Serpent they will be better off than Guardians most of the time as they won't die to bolters.

Eldar have a Heavy Flamer option?

Really?

Maybe he meant a warlock with Destructor?

Think he means add a Warlock with Destructor. Which I think has the same stats as a Hvy Flamer.

(beat me to the punch...thought I hit refresh first DOBT! )

Anyway...I've never been a fan of the Storm Squads...Way to easy to gun down. Then they are not that great when they get into combat anyway.

Vypers...Stay away. Course I tend to lean towards the more durable Eldar.

I'd take Dire Avengers over the Defender squads. The support weapon is nice, but I'd rather have the Exarch in case I end up in close combat.