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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Lists:

Orks:

Warboss on Bike w/Powerklaw, Cybork body, attack squig
Big Mek w/KFF
30 Slugga Boys, 3 rokkits, bosspole, Nob w/PK
30 Slugga Boys, 3 rokkits, bosspole, Nob w/PK
30 Shoota Boys, 3 rokkits, bosspole, Nob w/PK
30 Shoota Boys, 3 rokkits, bosspole, Nob w/PK
15 Lootas
15 Lootas
2 Killa Kans w/rokkit, CCW
2 Killa Kans w/rokkit, CCW
2 Killa Kans w/rokkit, CCW

Daemons:

Herald of Khorne w/chariot, unholy strength, Icon of Chaos
Herald of Khorne w/chariot, unholy strength, Icon of Chaos
Herald of Khorne w/chariot, unholy strength, Icon of Chaos
Herald of Khorne w/chariot, unholy strength, Icon of Chaos
4 Bloodcrushers w/Fury of Khorne
4 Bloodcrushers w/Fury of Khorne
4 Bloodcrushers
5 Bloodletters
5 Bloodletters
5 Bloodletters
5 Pink Horrors w/Bolt
5 Pink Horrors w/Bolt, changling
5 Pink Horrors w/Bolt
Soul Grinder w/Tongue
Soul Grinder w/Tongue
Soul Grinder w/Tongue

Roll for Mission gives 5 objectives

(Good for fighting orks, force them to capture with troops, that's troops not in the mix. Definitely much better than KP, given my MSU army. 2 Objectives would just lead to a draw fest, unless one of us slaughtered the other)

We put out the objectives, there ends up being 2 sort of in the middle, and 3 in the middle of 3 of the quadrants. I'm once again surprised at an opponent who doesn't seem to understand their army's objective profile. Orks like the objectives close together and in the center. He's actually the one who put down 2 of the corner ones. Sheesh.

Roll for Deployment Zone gives Spearhead That's pretty good, as it means his lootas will be back in a corner, and that there might be a section of the board that they can't reach. It's better than Pitched Battle, and much worse than Dawn of War (gotta love Dawn of War with Daemons vs. Orks)

Roll to go first/select deployment zone, I win.

Ordinarily, I'd wish to make my opponent go first, they lose a shooting phase, contest at end of game, etc, but I want to keep him bottled up in his quarter, so I elect to go first. I select as my deployment zone the corner opposite the corner with no objective, so he's penned up with no flag.

He sets up fairly conventionally along his frontier, with the shootas on the ends of his half-moon, and the sluggas in the middle. He's got the 3 Killa Kan pairs front & center, within range of the KFF. His warboss is also front and center. He's got his Lootas hiding out in the back, in cover.

He elects not to Seize the initiative, and I get ready to take my first turn.

I select 3 Grinders, 3 Crusher squads and 2 Heralds, and roll a 6, so I've got my A-team.

Examining his fortress, my first thought is that he has some serious firepower. 2 Loota units, 2 shoota units, and all those rokkits. I want to be fighting as fast as possible. Also, when 2 Furious Charge armies face off, the loser is the one who gets charged, so I need to do the charging. Finally, with the Waargh he is faster than me when it counts.

This presents a difficult problem, as I need to get fairly close to him, but he'll win if he charges me. I think about it, then decide to put the Soul Grinders up front. Since I've got him penned in he needs to come to me (if the Grinders charge into where he's standing he'll have some serious trouble leaving his zone, given that the Grinders will hang around a while, and then explode, and leave behind difficult terrain.), but the vast majority of his boys can't hurt the Grinders. The all-powerful slugga boy charge can be held by grinders, and will then evaporate in the face of a khornate counter-charge.

So I drop the 3 Grinders roughly evenly spaced along his line. I put my chariots and Crushers behind the line, though one unit of crushers scatters up into the line, while another scatters way back. Runnign lets me even out my formation somewhat, end up with 3 Grinders and a crusher unit in front, a crusher unit and 2 chariots in back, and a crusher unit WAY back.

I fire the Soul Grinder's Tongue attacks at the Killa Kans, but the cover save makes them shrug the 2 pens off. Phooey.

On his first turn he moves up on me, with the exception of one Shoota boy squad who goes towards the primarily unoccupied corner. His Biker moves up between one of my grinders and a Herald, and all his Killa Kans move up on my line. His shooting is mostly uneventful, one loota squad gets 3 shots and guns down the Herald near his Warboss, and the other gets 2 shots and kills a Crusher and wounds another.

In his charge phase he sends a pair of kans into one of my 3 man Bloodcrusher units (one with rending), and a pair of cans and his warboss into a second soul grinder. His last Kan unit is too far out to charge this round. The bloodcrushers do nothing to the cans, who do nothing right back (3's to hit, 6's to glance meet 5's to hit, 2's to wound and a 5+ invul, combat that will never ever end begins). Warboss and the pair of cans vs. the other grinder is a more exciting fight, as the Grinder snips the warboss's head off and is then blown up by the cans, who massacre a little closer.

At the top of the second, reserves gives me the Changling, a Herald and 2 Bloodletter squads.

I consider the situation. The changling needs to be vaguely close, in order to mess with the Lootas, but there's no real reason for the Bloodletters to be anywhere near this fight. They would just get loota'd, and charging them into battle with the big ork mobs is just a way to lose them. They way to kill those ork mobs is with my Heralds/Crushers. So far we are roughly even, I've lost a grinder and he's lost his warboss. I think I can go for the objectives with the Letters. It's earlier than I like, but with those loota's there's not much "give" in the objective claiming. I don't want to have a draw because I kill his troops and he loota's down the one of my units that's stuck on a random objective. The Herald, of course, needs to be in the center fighting area. A Herald is an Ork-slaughtering machine.

So I drop the changling in on the surviving Herald's icon, alonside the existing Herald. The Bloodletters fall on the two corner objectives he's not near, in some terrain. I move my Bloodcrushers (the unengaged squad) towards his force, and then run them even closer. The close Bloodcrushers move towards the Cans that just killed my Grinder. I move the two unengaged Soul Grinders closer to him. One rolls a 6 to fleet, and is close enough to charge his shoota boy squad. The other charges in on a pair of kans, seeking to free up my soul grinders.

The charging Bloodcrushers do nothing to the kans they charge, who do nothing back. The charging Grinder kills 1 slugga boy, and gets another on the no retreat, and the charging Grinder destroys one of the two cans fighting my Crushers, due to the magic of combat allocation.

On his second turn he calls the Waargh, and moves up in earnest. His lootas, deprived of most targets, focus in on the sole Bloodcrusher unit that isn't engaged in combat, killing half of it. He's moved a shoota squad towards it, but flubs the difficult terrain test + waaargh roll, due to having shot himself out of the charge. He moves a pair of cans towards the Grinder/Crusher/Kan combat.

When he charges in with his pair of kans, the Grinder crushes them both before they can swing. Unfortunately, the standing Kan punches the Grinder and blows it up, as the Crushers beat fruitlessly on it.

On my next turn another Herald and 2 Pink Horror units fall in. I drop them all in the center. All my Pink Horrors shoot at the shoota boy unit, killing like a third of them, and then the surviving 2 crushers charge in there. The 2 Heralds charge into the slugga boys who are still swinging on the Grinder, and start a wholesale massacre. In 2 seperate fights, the 3 Crushers can't do anything to the 2/1 Kans, and vice versa.

He's got 2 free units, and he moves in with both of them. He also shoots his lootas at my free Herald, and does 2 wounds. He rolls badly on difficult terrain, and can't get his shoota boys into my crushers fighting his one can, but his other slugga boy squad charges in to try and thump the grinder that's holding all his slugga boys in place to get masascred by the Heralds. Basically the only thing that happens this round is a lot of slugga boys die.

On my turn I figure this is pretty much wrap-up. If my crushers ever punch out those kans (which they've been whittling down) I'm in the clear, and there's not much more I can do to improve my odds. I get my last units in, and move them towards the scuffles and objectives. The battles grind on, this round he punches out the center grinder (it explodes, and kills more Orks), finally, but vs. 3 Heralds his sluggas are evaporating. The unit that first took the Grinder charge breaks and flees, under half so it can't rally.

On his turn he shoots down a Pink Horror unit and half of a bloodletter squad with his lootas, and finally gets the last slugga unit into the center scrum, just in time to take combat res from the second unit of sluggas being slaughtered by 3 Heralds. Then, in a catastrophic moment for him, my Crushers finally bust the cans, simultaneously.

Basically, at this point, there's ~15 shoota boys fighting one grinder, about to be charged by 3 more, and ~10 shoota boys fighting 3 Heralds on chariots, about to be charged by 3 Crushers. There are also 5 Daemon troop units lurking on the objectives in either x formations or cover. He's got 2 loota units unengaged. Seeing no chance at victory he concedes.

Normally I don't write up battles this one-sided, but I thought that writing up how Khorne Daemons engage a fairly well-played, well-built ork army would help me get a better handle on how to replicate my success.

All in all, fact is that Warhammer 40K has never been as balanced as it is now, and codex releases have never been as interesting as they are now (new units and vehicles and tons of new special rules/strategies each release -- not just the same old crap with a few changes in statlines and points costs).

-Therion
_______________________________________

New Codexia's Finest Hour - my fluff about the change between codexes, roughly novel length. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I love these battle reports. I'm fascinated with Chaos Daemons, yet have never seen them played. I feel like I've learned a lot just by reading your exploits.

One thing that worryies about the new marine dex is Dreadnought spam. I'm not sure how your succesful version of daemons can compete with what looks like a doable and popular list in the near future.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





Love your batreps 40kenthusiast! Congrats on another Daemon victory.

What was up with your opponent's PKs? Seems like there were several exchanges in melee between Grinders and slugga/shoota boyz, but the nob PKs didn't really do anything. Was it just bad luck (or good luck, depending on your point of view)?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Edit: Just realized that I didn't mention that the PKs were doing surface damage, tearing off arms and breaking legs. Then again, who cares about that once you are stuck in on an Ork mob? This may have contributed to the impression of invincibility. I'll answer your question as I originally understood it (why didn't the nobs kill the grinders), but the answer to your stated question is that I simply neglected to mention that they were damaging the grinders, and the grinders were smushing 1-2 orks a round.

3 attacks, needs 3's to hit, 5's to glance, 6's to pen. Then it ignores all glances, and 2/3 of pens (in practice anything that isn't a destroyed is an ignored once it's in melee, since the only thing it is doing is trapping the orks in place).

So, 2/3 * 1/6 * 1/3 = 2/54= 1/27 for each attack? The ork's got 3 attacks a round at 1/27 odds. Not really suprising it took a while.

Obviously, its a much better scenario for the Ork if he charges, as he gets an extra attack, and +1 strength, which is extremely important. In this game the slugga boy unit suffered the charge, and the Grinder hung tough till the next slugga boy unit hit. I was somewhat fortunate he didn't die on the second boy's charge, but it did get blown up the round after.

It would have been a very different game if the Grinder had charged into the sluggas and got reemed instantly, but the odds were in my favor, and that's a gamble I'll take.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2008/10/20 20:49:09


All in all, fact is that Warhammer 40K has never been as balanced as it is now, and codex releases have never been as interesting as they are now (new units and vehicles and tons of new special rules/strategies each release -- not just the same old crap with a few changes in statlines and points costs).

-Therion
_______________________________________

New Codexia's Finest Hour - my fluff about the change between codexes, roughly novel length. 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





Heh, I actually always assume the worst when it comes to anything vs power klaws. I have a phobia of Ork mobs with PK nobs (ie, all of them) - it's like Where's Waldo with a twist.

All very good points BTW. I actually remember the time a Grinder of mine took a charge from a full Assault Squad, Sergeant w/Power Fist & Chaplain w/melta bombs. Managed to kill them all in 3 rounds of assault, only losing 1 arm. For a walker the Soul Grinder is one tough mother.
   
Made in us
Strider





Bremerton, WA

Nice! What did you make the Heralds out of?

If you smell bad, take a shower before playing me. I hate when people devote too much time to something that they can't even shower.  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Los Angeles, CA

Nice batrep...

Your army was much stronger in its design than his.

I mean this as a compliment, not an attack on the level of difficulty this game was.

Orks are always difficult for demons, and his list wasn't total fail.

I liked that bit about screening your bloodcrushers and heralds from charges by laying the soul grinders in front. Great way to get those charges off.




Even more reason to take 3 soul grinders... eh Somnicide?

Please check out my current project blog

Feel free to PM me to talk about your list ideas....

The Sprue Posse Gaming Club 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





@Nitro:

I used the Bloodletter standard bearer with the champ head on Tomb King chariots (3 plastic chariots for one low price? Yes please!). One of them has a beastman chariot instead. They look pretty dumb (the chariot yolk bit is just sitting on the crusher's rear.), but I don't really care about soft scores, and they get across the "red gribbly chariot" vibe fine.

@Shep:

It's weird, the more things in his list that gave me the least trouble were the most competative things, and vice versa. His Warboss on Bike and Loota mobs, normally really big deals, did pretty much jack this game, while the Killa Kans (normally scoffed at) practically thwarted my battle plan.

Thanks for the compliment as to the army's design. I think this is a viable, tournament, 5th edition list, able to stand up to most any other tournament list (save for those designed expressly to prey on it, of course), with a slight edge if it rolls a 3+ to start and a moderate disadvantage if it rolls a 1-2.


All in all, fact is that Warhammer 40K has never been as balanced as it is now, and codex releases have never been as interesting as they are now (new units and vehicles and tons of new special rules/strategies each release -- not just the same old crap with a few changes in statlines and points costs).

-Therion
_______________________________________

New Codexia's Finest Hour - my fluff about the change between codexes, roughly novel length. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Los Angeles, CA

I love kans... I did really well with them in vegas...

I was thinking more that his list should have lost the warboss, added 3 more kans, and dropped all those rokkits for big shootas. i would have also swapped one of those boy units for a loota unit, and I don't run foot choppy boys. Shootas are the real nightmare for demons, not choppy strength 3 orks.

If I were him i would have used the kans just like you used your soul grinders. Make a big wide screen, hang back behind it and shoot lootas and big shootas, then counter charge after you dive into the kans.


I gotta see those 4 mini-MCs in action. Something my friend and i ahve been talking about but not sure we've actually put on the table yet...

thx for the report

Please check out my current project blog

Feel free to PM me to talk about your list ideas....

The Sprue Posse Gaming Club 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






.................................... Searching for Iscandar

The Ork list isn't very good. I think 90 Boyz is about the most you really want to have. Two shoota, one slugga for counterattacking. Where's the grot screen for the lootas? Sigh.

===================================

Yours is better than most demon lists I've seen.

Why put so few demons with the changeling? Doesn't take much to put 10 wounds on that squad and kill him.

I think the bloodletters and non-changeling tzeentch demon units are fails. You don't need either, you need survivability while the HQ, Elites, and Heavy go after the enemy army. None of those units provide it.

3x3 Kans and a Deff Dread with CC arms would have ruined your day, they can kill soulgrinders where Nobs have a serious issue doing so.

Just rambling.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






The land of cotton.

Stelek wrote:The Ork list isn't very good. I think 90 Boyz is about the most you really want to have. Two shoota, one slugga for counterattacking. Where's the grot screen for the lootas? Sigh.


I'll second that. It seems to me that 30 man (Boyz?) squads are a waste and 20 Boyz works out better in the meta game. Going Grots give you a speed bump for the backfield and a cheap objective holder for shooty opponents.

Walter is good at picking strong lists, you have to give him that.
   
 
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