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This saturday I'm taking my Dark Eldar to a RTT that will be 2500 and using some of the 'Ard Boyz scenarios (so ya on Kill Points!) I tried the below list during 'Ard Boyz and had alot of success (placed 1st). But I am looking to see if there is anything I can do to tweak it even more. Any input would be appreciated.

Heres my List

HQ

Archon Punisher, tormentor Helm, trophy rack, combat drugs, plasma nades, hell mask, and animus vitae

Wych Dracite with plasma and haywire nades, trophy rack, and agoniser
8 wyche retinue w/ succubus with agonizer, x2 blasters and plasma nades
Raider w/nightshields

Elites

8 Wyches w/ succubus agonizer, x2 blasters, plasma nades, haywire nade on succubus and trophy rack
Raider w/ nightshields

8 Wyches w/ succubus agonizer, x2 blasters, plasma nades, haywire nade on succubus and trophy rack
Raider w/ nightshields

8 Wyches w/ succubus agonizer, x2 blasters, plasma nades, haywire nade on succubus and trophy rack
Raider w/ nightshields

Troops

9 man Raider Squad w/ Sybarite agonizer, trophy rack, splinter cannon, blaster, plasma and haywire nades on sybarite
Raider

9 man Raider Squad w/ Sybarite agonizer, trophy rack, splinter cannon, blaster, plasma and haywire nades on sybarite
Raider

9 man Raider Squad w/ Sybarite agonizer, trophy rack, splinter cannon, blaster, plasma and haywire nades on sybarite
Raider

9 man Raider Squad w/ Sybarite agonizer, trophy rack, splinter cannon, blaster, plasma and haywire nades on sybarite
Raider

10 Warrior Squad x2 dark lances

10 Warrior Sqead x2 dark lances, sybarite with nightmare doll

Heavy Support

Ravager x3 disentegrators, nightshields

Ravager x3 disentegrators, nightshields

Ravager x3 disentegrators, nightshields

With only 20 men and 11 vehicles to deploy, this list was both very fast and easy to deploy. And with the 'Ard Boyz Kill point rules I'm alot less vunerable there then it regular games.

******************************
Bat Rep from round one of 'Ard Boyz http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/218268.page

I think your list is lacking in many ways.

Why your foot squads are so weak without numbers or secondary weapons; yet the mounted warrior squads are strong with sybarites added is confusing.

I don't see much anti-infantry firepower.

Maybe this will give you some ideas.

http://yesthetruthhurts.blogspot.com/2008/10/build-request-dark-eldar.html

It's a good list, the biggest threat to it that I see is a 6CLR BT list with Blessed hulls. Then your only hope of penning a landraider is the haywire grenades, which is a bit of a crap shoot.

the other thing is that with the 'ard boys KP scheme, you are still giving up 24 KPs with this list, so if you go up against a 8-10KP list, you are going to have some difficulty. (I'm talking about the 6 CLR list here too, 9KP!)

Good luck!

Stelek wrote:I think your list is lacking in many ways.

Why your foot squads are so weak without numbers or secondary weapons; yet the mounted warrior squads are strong with sybarites added is confusing.

I don't see much anti-infantry firepower.

Maybe this will give you some ideas.

http://yesthetruthhurts.blogspot.com/2008/10/build-request-dark-eldar.html

I was hoping for something alittle more constructive...but hey. The 10 man Dark lance squads have been a mainstay of mine forever. At 100 points they are great for picking off armor, sitting on objectives or perfoming as bait for flanking units. And as far as anti-infantry?!? 9 disintegrators and 4 splinter cannons is generally enough to soften up the enemy before hitting them in CC, which is what this list is all about. 4 wyche squads, 4 raider squads and the archon have yet to fail on killing off huge swathes of infantry.

Now if you can recommend something in place of what I brought that would be appreciated.

Sushicaddy wrote:It's a good list, the biggest threat to it that I see is a 6CLR BT list with Blessed hulls. Then your only hope of penning a landraider is the haywire grenades, which is a bit of a crap shoot.

the other thing is that with the 'ard boys KP scheme, you are still giving up 24 KPs with this list, so if you go up against a 8-10KP list, you are going to have some difficulty. (I'm talking about the 6 CLR list here too, 9KP!)

Good luck!

Yeah, but theres not alot I can do about that. I will say that the few lists with that many LRs that I have seen have not had Blessed hulls, and in that situation I am looking alot better. But if they do have the blessed hulls, then well......

gardeth wrote:

Stelek wrote:I think your list is lacking in many ways.

Why your foot squads are so weak without numbers or secondary weapons; yet the mounted warrior squads are strong with sybarites added is confusing.

I don't see much anti-infantry firepower.

Maybe this will give you some ideas.

http://yesthetruthhurts.blogspot.com/2008/10/build-request-dark-eldar.html

I was hoping for something alittle more constructive...but hey. The 10 man Dark lance squads have been a mainstay of mine forever. At 100 points they are great for picking off armor, sitting on objectives or perfoming as bait for flanking units. And as far as anti-infantry?!? 9 disintegrators and 4 splinter cannons is generally enough to soften up the enemy before hitting them in CC, which is what this list is all about. 4 wyche squads, 4 raider squads and the archon have yet to fail on killing off huge swathes of infantry.

Now if you can recommend something in place of what I brought that would be appreciated.

you know, if people didn't get so defensive and actually looked at what stelek is saying, they would get a lot more out of his criticism...

Sorry if I came of as defensive, but I came to the forum looking for some advice to tweak this list. I have built this list after several years of play with several hundred games under my belt. I say that not to brag but to point out that I have tried alot of different combinations. I have also had the benefit of comparing notes with some truly great DE players. So it kind of caught me off guard when someone called out some of the more tried and true elements of the list and gave some suggestions (via the blog) that used some more of the heavily derided elements of the codex.

But at the same time I did post this asking for imput and should be less defensive when I receive some that goes counter to what I think. So for that I do apologize.

The Dark Eldar have LD8. Those Warrior squads are easy to pin, easy to tank shock, and easy to take repeated morale tests until broken. At T3, they are also easy to remove.

Suggestion: Up the number to 12-16. Alternatively, play against a heavy bolter devastator spam army in an objective mission and enjoy.

Running 9 disintegrators and 4 splinter cannons is nice.

My list has:

3 Horrorfex.
6 Splinter Cannons.
6 Destructors.
10 Shredders.
2 Blasters.
9 Disintegrators.
9 Dark Lances.

I also have 9 Slave Snares, which adds up to 9D6 S4 hits x the number of units you can fly over.

If you have anti-infantry, where is it?

My list is 1750 points. Yours is 2500?

Come on, see the dark in Dark Eldar.

gardeth wrote:Sorry if I came of as defensive, but I came to the forum looking for some advice to tweak this list. I have built this list after several years of play with several hundred games under my belt. I say that not to brag but to point out that I have tried alot of different combinations. I have also had the benefit of comparing notes with some truly great DE players. So it kind of caught me off guard when someone called out some of the more tried and true elements of the list and gave some suggestions (via the blog) that used some more of the heavily derided elements of the codex.

But at the same time I did post this asking for imput and should be less defensive when I receive some that goes counter to what I think. So for that I do apologize.

I'm not offended.

I use stuff that works in 5th edition.

I skip stuff that worked in 4th (your list) and moved to a 5th edition list.

When you run into a 5th edition list, and lose your whole army...do you think it gives me any solace to say I told you so?

I've given you my advice.

If you really believe having more S3 splinter rifles is 'the win', so be it.

If you also choose to believe DE are still an assault capable army in Kabal mode, well...so be it #2.

I wouldn't have a problem taking your army apart with a 1750 list, I think that little of it.

Not YOU, just the list.

Yes, it worked 5 years ago.

It doesn't work well NOW.

The assault in the army is the true anti-infantry. I have run this list for awhile now and had great success with it. I cleaned house at 'Ard Boyz in the first round (couldn't make it to the 2nd as the wife had surgery). Are there lists that I am going to have some problems with? Yes that will always be the case for any army. But there are only a few such lists. And to insuate that you could take apart my list with a 1750 list is rather insulting. This list is a far departure from what I used to run in 4th edition and as I said before I have had great success with in 5th (especially in the tournament settings (2 1st places in 2 tournaments). It requires careful deployment and targert priority, and when the assault comes, its important to maximize the damage done.

Anyway arguing this over a forum is rather moot as neither of us is likely to budge on our view points and we can't see each others list played by the person who created it....

Hey, are you the gentlemen I met at Battle of Stone's River, and then played later on at Dicehead with my Necrons after you beat Player-A's Nidzilla? If so, I'll see you there! Team ATL is going 4 deep at this one. I'm bringing my Chaos Daemons, ought to be good times.

Gardeth, I don't know how to tell you that this is a list everyone knows how to beat and isn't any good in 5th edition.

I shudder to think what your list used to look like.

You might be insulted, but junk is junk. Alot of junk floats to the top, doesn't make it any less junk.

I've played this list. About 8 years ago. It wasn't bad, but it was easily shot apart in 3rd. That's why everyone stopped playing it and swapped to WWP and Wych armies which are both superior to this army, at fewer total points.

So many of the fundamentals of 5th edition aren't even covered by this list, it's shocking to hear you defend it.

Most armies (not a few) should beat this list to death. Careful deployment with 11 Raider models? Are you kidding?
You fill your deployment zone, always!

One can only hope you run into a decent army list, and soon.

This is why I hate posting on forums. People using broad generalizations with little real input to back things up. Well I'm gonna end with this. I will take this list to the tournament on Saturday. And afterwards I promise that I will post the results good or bad.

@40kenthusiast While I was at Battle for Stones River I did not play any nidzilla list. So I am guessing you played the other Dark Eldar player. But I do look forward to see you guys again and hopefully playing some of you this time. @ Stone's River I had to play the two people I rode in with....

Fine fine.

Look at the results for the Vegas GT and the Chicago GT.

Michael is a good tournament player (notice his numerous trophies).

Notice his places with his army (pretty much your list, only it has all Wyches instead of warriors in the mix).

Notice he's the only Dark Eldar player.

I've been playing inkies since they came out. I have 3 DE armies--warrior spam, raider spam, and WWP. It's the only army I own that I have more than 2000 points of.

I'm being quite specific about the issues with your list, I didn't just say "it sucks".

You have no way to negate cover.
You have 3 assault units that can no longer do flank charges and instead get the full brunt of attacks from everyone, and cannot consolidate.
You are missing nightshields on half your raiders, so the units that can't "see" the rest of your army on the first turn, shoot those down instead.
You have shooty units (warriors) outfitted for close combat, and you claim this is good. Everyone knows otherwise.
You have minimum sized warrior squads, with 2 special weapons so killing them off at range isn't particularly difficult.
You talk about deployment being the 'secret' but everyone knows that's baloney, there's nothing subtle or hidden about placing 11 raiders on the board and believing otherwise says much about your generalship.

There's some real input.

The list is junk, and I can take it apart with any well designed list at 1750. You certainly don't have one to fight back with, so have a 750 point advantage. Know why I think my Dark Eldar (and tau, orks, nids, chaos) can manhandle this? You are 3 units short of the full on Wych assault army, and you have 6 warrior units trying to make your army semi-shooty.

Splinter rifles do not a shooty army make.

Your lack of special weapons but inclusion of AGONIZERS ON WARRIOR SQUADS speaks volumes.

No shadow field on your Lord.

No Goblet of Spite on ANY of your Wych squads.

Epic.

I gotta say I really do not have a real problem with Gardeths list. I will admit I prefer larger foot squads as well but I hated 10 man sniper squads even in 4th edition as I do not see them as being very Dark Eldarish (just a cheap min/max squad, gah). In 5th however, I see them being a little more valuable being a scoring unit that you park on your objective but as I mentioned before I like my foot squads in the 14 to 16 man range.

In my 'Ard Boyz list I used 2 foot squads and 4 raider squads and I think they are a very solid choice - I simply put the raider squads into reserve and let them enter the game from my board edge and assist in fire support until the 5th or so turn and use them for the "last turn grab". I used horrorfex's on my raider squads raider so if my raider squads had to charge into cover I would have a chance of negating the effects of cover and preserving my initiative 5 warriors by pinning the target first. I probably wouldn't give them trophy racks or haywires but thats a style thing - I would easily drop the haywires for horrorfexs (or the trophy racks).

I am not terribly sold on using slave snares as I find them tough to use - raiders tend to crash too fast and getting into position to use them is tough. Usually, I can get 1 raider (of several) to snare a marine but usually taking a marine doesn't pay for all the points used on the nets and once you do take a marine the opponent "freaks" and ensures it crashes next turn. They are fluffy as anything and fun to use but not very practical at all.

I also do not like the idea of the Goblet of Spite now that you cannot use it against vehicles - even if you could, I really do not like the idea of infantry assaulting with haywires as the result of either missing it totally or even exploding it would be rather costly as your wyches are trying to make a 6+ save against the exploding vehicles. Shooting a vehicle is always a more efficient way dealing with it, forget the haywires.

Not sure about the absence of a shadowfield, did you forget to list it?

The wyches look fine - there's your crowd control.

Ravagers are a mixed bag for me, I tend to run at least 1, 3 lance ravager but with all the dissie's I'd say that's decent crowd control as well.

If I had to use this list I would certainly use reserves to preserve my raider squads and although the sniper squads are a little on the weak side I think I could screen them for a turn with the rest of my list charging forward - you would just have to engage the enemy to keep the fire off those 2 sniper squads.

I was one of 3 Dark Eldar players at the LVGT - there was supposed to be 4 of us but Michaels friend had somehow "lost" his army in transit to the GT (I think the airlines lost his lugguage). I met Michael and its tough to say too much about the validity of a Raider Rush Wych Cult army with Lelith as he had terrible luck with the dice (for example, he had first move but his opponent won the "take the initiative" roll and Michael prompty lost just about all his raiders and some wyches on the first turn). As for his tactics, meh - it was a 4th edition list with 4th ed. tactics and he didn't even try to adjust for 5th (I was there and I watched him play). I suggested putting some of those wyches into reserve but he wanted to use the "too many targets" strategy and bum rush the enemy - he was fairly disappointed with his luck. In defence of Michael however, he did say he used the same exact list in a previous tournament using 5th ed rules and promptly slaughtered his opponents, so I am going to chalk up his success/failure as being rather dependent of the "dice gods" for that day.

Gardeth, you did well in the 1st round and I suspect you will do well in the 2nd - critiquing a list is very subjective and there is bound to be disapproval from other players. I agree, I do not like posting my lists either as everyone tries to re-make your list into someone elses play style. What really disappoints me is when someone suggests that there is only one way to play an army successfully not knowing your play style to begin with.

My suggestion is to not stray too far from what you are using as you have already proven you can win with it. Take advantage of using reserves and preserving the 4 raider squads until the later part of the game. With spearhead deployments you will find that the enemy will setup fairly close to the center mid-way line in his quarter and that any of your units entering the game from anywhere along the 72" board edge will easily catch side shots on tanks much like the out-flanking manuver. Objectives also tend to be near the mid-line of the board and with your mechanized units you can usually reach any objective by simply turbo boosting into position from the board edge.

As for Dawn of War - my deployment is usually dependant on if I have first move or not. If I have first move then everything starts on the table most of the time (depending on cover, the enemy and mission). Even if you lose the first move to the opponent stealling the initiative you can still survive with night fighting conditions and nightshields for insurance. If you lose first move and are moving 2nd then I will most likely still use reserves and pounce on an aggressive enemy deployment in the later turns. Your sniper squads act as "bait" if you like it or not and sometimes that can be exploited if you set the trap right (just remember to keep them in the center if you got an opponent with alot of outflanking units).

Other than that I doubt I can give you any more suggestions that you don't already know (and probably know better than I as I was unable to do well in the 'Ard boyz tourny myself). Good luck and happy hunting!!!

[quote=Stelek}

I'm being quite specific about the issues with your list, I didn't just say "it sucks".
Actually that was pretty close to most of your comments[i]

You have no way to negate cover.
[i]Assault tends to that quit nicely
You have 3 assault units that can no longer do flank charges and instead get the full brunt of attacks from everyone, and cannot consolidate.
and that was the 1st obstacle I had to overcome with this army and I beleave I have, overlapping combats and overwhelming a flank have all worked out excellently and much to the suprise of many of my opponents, who, like you, thought my units would be far less effective
You are missing nightshields on half your raiders, so the units that can't "see" the rest of your army on the first turn, shoot those down instead.
You have shooty units (warriors) outfitted for close combat, and you claim this is good. Everyone knows otherwise.
everyone right, i have seen much that suggests the exact opposite beyond my own experience

You have minimum sized warrior squads, with 2 special weapons so killing them off at range isn't particularly difficult.
You talk about deployment being the 'secret' but everyone knows that's baloney, there's nothing subtle or hidden about placing 11 raiders on the board and believing otherwise says much about your generalship.
again with the everyone....actually how i deploy my raiders can make or break the army. There is usually more then enough room to load one side or the other. The placement of the individual raiders (wyche raiders, raider with lord) matters alot as well. quarters can make things crowded but even then deployement is extremely important. To say otherwise would normaly indicate a serious lack of tactical understanding, but I'm going to assume it was just a statement made out of spite.

There's some real input.

The list is junk, and I can take it apart with any well designed list at 1750. You certainly don't have one to fight back with, so have a 750 point advantage. Know why I think my Dark Eldar (and tau, orks, nids, chaos) can manhandle this? You are 3 units short of the full on Wych assault army, and you have 6 warrior units trying to make your army semi-shooty.
here you have fundamentally missed the point of this army, the 6 warrior squads are objective grabbers/anti armor/2nd wave assualt and in this capacity they have performed admirabley. And honestly I know longer truly care that you think your 1750 points can handle my 2500, you have obviously missed out on the purpose of half my army.


Splinter rifles do not a shooty army make.
never said I was going for a shooty army, just enough shooting to pop vehicles (21 lances/blasters) and weaken harder units (9 dissies) its otherwise a cc army. And honestly my splinter rifles rarely fire as you can fire them and assault

Your lack of special weapons but inclusion of AGONIZERS ON WARRIOR SQUADS speaks volumes.
to date (both in 4th and 5th ed) my raider squads have managed to rack up an impressive # of kills by shooting (blaster+SC) then assaulting in with the agonizer. Everything from MCs, MEQs, to hordes. Of course its always best to double up if you can,

No shadow field on your Lord.
Now that was a typo, he never goes anywhere without it

No Goblet of Spite on ANY of your Wych squads.
and never will be, any item that lets the enemy hit my wyches on 3+ is worse then useless

Epic.

Actually, one thing I am curious about. Why not make it a wych cult army, take the wych arcite and the DE Dracon, and turn those raider squads into wych squads? Since you're not really using the Raider squads as shooty units (and wyches can also have blasters and shredders), and wyches hit so much harder (and are more survivable) in cc, why not make it wych cult? It seems like it would be stronger. The DE dual-lance warrior squads would be fine in Elites, though can't hold objectives.

Can you edit that so it's readable?

tzeentchling wrote:Actually, one thing I am curious about. Why not make it a wych cult army, take the wych arcite and the DE Dracon, and turn those raider squads into wych squads? Since you're not really using the Raider squads as shooty units (and wyches can also have blasters and shredders), and wyches hit so much harder (and are more survivable) in cc, why not make it wych cult? It seems like it would be stronger. The DE dual-lance warrior squads would be fine in Elites, though can't hold objectives.

I'd considered it, but it came down to two things. 1 dont really have the models for it, and 2 I want my wyches running full speed at the enemy not trying to capture objectives, and honstely, while the rock in assualt they eventually get worn down to just a few models.

Stelek wrote:Can you edit that so it's readable?

Yeah I noticed that too, but honestly I'm tired of arguing about my plastic toy soldiers. I'll post the results (good or bad) in the bat rep section on Monday.

I tried wych cult in 5th and its pretty different in strategy as wyches cost so much more than warriors and you need to get the wyches into combat if you want them to live - kinda wierd. I tried to make them work with portals but wwp lost some of its edge as the enemy had a pretty easy time focusing on the portal carriers (no where to hide).

With Kabal, the 6 troop choices are fairly easy to fill and and they shoot better than they assault. Granted there are a lot of splinter rifles going on but the blaster and cannons really make them better than the wyches at shooting. At 2k you can still get all 6 troop choices going and still have some left over points for some really good HQ and elite selections. I found using the HQ, Elites and heavy selections to keep the enemy busy while the troop choices come out of reserves. This method allows the raider squad to either support as a firebase or as support for close combat. Wyches as a troop choice just takes up so much in points that there isn't a whole lot of room for the other things and I do think having 6 troop choices is first priority.

Currently, I'd prefer a Kabal to a Wych Cult at 2000+. I did recently win a 1000 point RTT using a Wych Cult but the tables were 4x4 so I probably had an unfair advantage.

Yet Wyches get 2xShredders and do far more damage than a single warrior squad does.

WWP, try Grotesques. Fearless, 4+ cover save...easy to get that WWP deployed.

Hi!

Just wanna say that i think this Dark Eldar list looks really really good.
I think it has something vs any kind of list!
So go with it Gardeth and go kick some more ass with

(and no i DONT have any ideas about improvements)

Stelek wrote:WWP, try Grotesques. Fearless, 4+ cover save...easy to get that WWP deployed.

My grotesques are not fearless, in fact they run quite easily even with a Haemy leading them. How did you get your Grotesques fearless?

In my games at the LVGT I used a squad 7 grotesques and 2 haemys on a raider to lay down a wwp, here is their success story:

Game 1 - (moved 2nd in the turn) raider moved forward and deployed the grotesques and Haemy into cover. The chaos marine player summons his 14 lesser daemons and quite easily gets close enough to assault the grotesques. With the help of a raider squad the grotesques beat off the daemons and was able to deploy the portal in the 4th turn. 5th edition has made everyone much faster, even the foot sloggers can reach an aggressively placed portal carrier.

Game 2 - decided to not use the portal at all since it was a kill point game using spearhead. I did however use "reserves" normally and I easily outflanked him due to using a "quarters" setup. I really did not think I need the wwp at all as my units got to enter the game along my 72" board edge (I got to choose my targets much easier this way).

Game 3 - Grotesques started on the ground and used the raider as obscuring them because the terrain setup sucked. Even with a 4+ cover save the enemies fire prism large blast template killed 3+ grotesques causing them to break. On the 2nd turn the grotesques fail their morale a 2nd time and ran off the board.

Game 4 - again, I start the grotesques off the raider and into cover. I had to drop the portal first turn as my enemy had out flankers. As predicted, the outflankers came out in the 2nd turn (marine bike squad) and assaulted. Thankfully both portals were deployed on the first turn and I didn't need an agressive location. I believe that was spearhead setup and that was why the enemy could easily reach me in my own deployment zone.

Game 5 - this was the only game that I was able to use the grotesques as planned. They moved on the first turn and survived un-molested into the 2nd turn when the portal was deployed without incident.

Grotesques are definitely not a "sure thing", far from it but I do think they are still the best unit for deploying a portal. I say try not using the portal at all and in most deployment scenarios you really do not even need the wwp - just using reserves normally is good enough. I do like delaying the entrance of my units but with true line of sight and game mechanics a portal deploying unit is not safe from being shot or assaulted. If I am going to deploy the portal on the first turn then I might as well just enter the game from my board edge using as reserves (and save 100 points).

Just my thoughts on the matter.

No not literally fearless.

They only fear heavy weapons, the kind you normally don't see (you know, the weapons that don't normally kill tanks).

Even then, they don't have much to fear, if they have 4 lascannons they kill 1 grotesque.

Why would you use them the way you described?

First off, there's no reason to play them that way.

Second, there seems to be a few errors in what you describe.

So here's what I picked up from what you stated, you correct me where I'm wrong.

You had them onboard a raider, and got them off. Whatever for? You can deploy it while on the raider.

You deployed your raider to start the game, instead of keeping it in reserve. You know you can totally the other guy by bringing a torture amp raider (so you can place anywhere) and keeping everything else in WWP reserve, then enter whenever you do...zip forward 24" anywhere from your table edge, and if he doesn't knock you down and kill all your guys (not easy even on a raider as you have a 4+ save and the disembark doesn't do much) you can just deploy the portal and come screaming out of it late in the game.

Fire prism large blast cannot hurt grotesques unless it's pumped up by another fire prism. Was it? If not, woops.

By the way, what brought this whole thing on? I don't remember posting a WWP list in here. Just the one comment?

It's quite difficult to do anything but pin the grotesques (which can be crippling) since they cannot be hurt when they get shot off their transport.

Well the tournament has come and gone. It was a murphy's law event. First I forgot about the fact that the tournament was in a different time zone so barely made it on time (90mph in minivan yay!) My partner left his list behind >.< and i left behind a raider (they graciously allowed me to prox with a talos which is the first time he's been on the table in about a year.)

My first match was the one I didn't want. All foot guard (well 3 sentinels) all in about 6 force organization slots (2 HQs, 2 maxed troops (55 men each), 1 elite, 1 fast attack, and 1 heavy) all with CHEM ENHALERS, ug. And a kill point mission to boot. Suffice to say I made it across the table unscathed, made multiple assaults and ...... got bogged down by 1 or 2 survivors and then got clubbed to death by 30+ guardsmen in h-t-h. Almost forgot to mention they had chameloline as well so shooting them wasnt an option either. This combined with the fact that we only got to play 3 turns assured I didnt have much of a chance.

My 2nd round was a walk through, mech-black templars. My opponent was a cool guy who had just lost his dog that morning, so he was a bit distracted. I was able to kill most of what was on the board by the top of turn 3 at which point he conceded. Was really a big mis-match.

The 3rd round was against new codex marines mech with lysander. His dice where ice hot and mine ice cold. We both noted that his number of sixes matched my number of ones rolled. I could not with 21 lances or blasters destroy a single transport. I managed to kill a dreadnaught, 1 drop pod, and immobilize his landraider. While he killed 3 raiders just with stormbolters!!! if I had even rolled slightly below average I could have carried the day. Oh and my archon's shadowfield dropped to 1 bolt pistol shot....and I never made a cover save the entire game... But what made it easier was the my opponent was an excellent sportsman and I have to say i have rarely enjoyed terrible luck so much.

Overall I am still very happy with the list, the first match was just something that can't be fixed, the 2nd match everything worked perfectly and the third match was a dice determined game.

So off I go to burn my dice and find a missing raider..ug.