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Here is the basic tourney list I've built to start taking.

HQ
Brother-Captain w/Psycannon and Psychic Hood-111

Elite
3xGKT's w/Squad Psycannon and BC Psycannon-208
(BC joins this squad)

4xGKT's w/Squad Psycannon and BC Pyscannon-254

Troops
8xPAGK's-225

8xPAGK's-225

8xPAGK's-225

Heavy Support
Landraider-250

Landraider-250

So what do you guys think. Basically the Landraiders are the fire support as well as safe haven for the PAGK squads. The idea is the same as most Pure GK armies, proper application of firepower and precise movement to control the game. The GKT's are pure fire power platforms for either infantry or light tanks as they can put out a total of 15 Psycannon shots a turn. The psychic hood with unlimited range is a must obvioiusly to stop those darn eldar re-rolls. So what do you guys think?

HQ
Brother-Captain w/Psycannon and Psychic Hood-111

Elite
3xGKT's w/Squad Psycannon and BC Psycannon-208
(BC joins this squad)

4xGKT's w/Squad Psycannon and BC Pyscannon-254

Troops
8xPAGK's-225

8xPAGK's-225

8xPAGK's-225

Heavy Support
Landraider-250

Landraider-250

Good list. Land Raiders on objectie with GK's is probably the most secure objective you can get.
Although I would add some Incinerators (2 preferably), great against any infiltrators (generally medium 4+ armor) Imo incinerators are best mech and will help greatly.
The Land Raiders could do with Extra armor to ensure they can get "precise movement and control of the game"
Also Smoke Launchers help against melta weapons and bright lances. Searchlights are good in dawn of war.
I'm not sure about your terminators, I don't like them personally but then again I haven't used them.
Imo Pyscannons won't drive your opponent off their objective, GKT NFW's will though.
I would instead make use of their NFW's to contest and wipe out alot of units. drop the Pyscannons and add Incinerators, GM (hammerhand), LRC for them to go in, And they will cause more problems than Pyscannons.
It's a general rule i've come to for 5th edition, anything than doesn't capture objectives should be contesting objectives instead and eliminating troops.
If you like the Pyscannon support, Inq Lord + retinue (shooty) is probably better and cheaper.
Hope it helps!

I think you have a pretty solid list here. I havve been playing GK's for the past year and a half now and while i agree an incinerators are nice stormbolters are crown jewel on PAGK.

Termies IMO should always have as many psycannons as possible and while they are quite expensive they are my work horse and truned the tide for most of my games.

I always take a squad of stormtroopers but thats cause the damn things always make their points for me so it just a personal choice

BUt good luck and enjoy the fight of few against many

Broken record, but consider adding IL maybe AND inquisitor with mystics to get the shot at incoming deep strikers like.... Daemons, or deviant Space Marines or disloyal Imperial Guard. Nothing worse than having 10 Sternguard drop in with combi meltas on your Landraiders.....

@Mikeguth

It's a pure force so i'm not going to add that mystic. Not to mention that if he drops those sternguard next to my tanks then the sternguard will die the next turn from shooting and combat so it will be a trade off. granted if he's supported by heavy tanks i'll lose but at 1750 that's not likely.

@Boy

Before deciding on pure GK's i considered 2 small 5 man's to go into the LR's to make them mobile scoring pill boxes of doom but i find i like the pure list more, though the more i get to play this list the more i might consider changing my mind on allowing in outside units.

@Stormknight

That unit you just described would have the biggest set of crosshairs on it in the game. No one in their right mind would let that get close enough to do any damage. That being said what you then have is at least 1 wasted turn of not shooting w/the GKT's, you've just put an enormous percentage of your points deep inside enemy troops when they can't consolidate into new units and you've wasted those all important TL-LC's by taking a crusader which doesn't add much power wise to the army.

And every incinerator on a PAGK is one less stormbolter to thin the herd at range as well as 2 less st6 attacks in combat. over the course of the game the stormbolters and nemesis actually kill more guys than that one, maybe 2 shots you get from the incinerator.

Though i'll probably add the extra armor since that's a good point about maintaining control. Now where can i find 10 points?

Get 10 points: Drop a full squad of PAGK for 2 squads of 10 stormtroopers. Give one squad a grenade launcher and the other a flamer.

You have gained: Models to put in a LR to deploy on objectives, the ability to throw a few more shots around per turn (albeit less effective shots) and created a couple units the enemy isn't worried about in comparison to the rest of your army. So the troopers might be able to get something sneaky done while your opponent concentrates on the Knights. Or they blow those squads away completely, which is less fire at your more powerful units. It's a win either way.

Possible options

1)
You could make the 5 man Termi squad a 4 man(?), get smoke and armour, and get another PAGK and some other form of wargear (Frags and Targeters?)

2)
Drop a PAGK and do the same thing

For pure GK, it looks good. It looks like you maximized your strengths.

Hulksmash wrote:@Mikeguth
@Stormknight

That unit you just described would have the biggest set of crosshairs on it in the game. No one in their right mind would let that get close enough to do any damage. That being said what you then have is at least 1 wasted turn of not shooting w/the GKT's, you've just put an enormous percentage of your points deep inside enemy troops when they can't consolidate into new units and you've wasted those all important TL-LC's by taking a crusader which doesn't add much power wise to the army.

And every incinerator on a PAGK is one less stormbolter to thin the herd at range as well as 2 less st6 attacks in combat. over the course of the game the stormbolters and nemesis actually kill more guys than that one, maybe 2 shots you get from the incinerator.

Though i'll probably add the extra armor since that's a good point about maintaining control. Now where can i find 10 points?

Lol I love that. Yeah you would think so, but alls you have do is goto the objective where all the goodies are. Haha no offense but do the mathhammer on storm bolters (against marines)... then compare it NFW's on the charge. 9 storm bolter shots = 1 marine
Yes I have just sacrificed nearly half my army... Consolidating into enemy troops, well yes that would be nice, but thats why I have terminator armour.
Yes but now I have an efficient Land Raider variant, which moves 12" and still fires the majority of it's weapons.
One of those weapons a multi melta are pretty solid anti-tank. Hurricane bolters aren't much but are gonna help killing troops.
Incinerator... Ok well again your MEQ with GK's inside a LR right? So you won't want to thin out a squad with stormbolters.
The idea is, You jump out, you get one turn of shooting, Incinerators are uber:
let me explain
automatic hit, strength 5, multiple hits (on average 5 maybe more inside the LR) These hits will go before assault.
2 incinerators = 12 hit = 8 wounds = just under 3 marines dead
27 storm bolter = 18 hit = 9 wound = 3 marines dead
Not to mention Incinerators ignore cover, ignore invulnerables and are a fairly decent ap, to stop units like howling banshees raping us.

@Stormknight

So what your saying is it's a good idea to consolidate 50% of my army into a single alpha strike when i'm certainly going to be outnumbered, normally by a large margin? Seems like a mistake to let my enemy take me apart in smaller bite sized chunks.

And it's till lacking the extra anti-tank that a standard LR adds to a GK army. And one multi-melta vs. 2 TL-LC's doesn't even compare. Yes it's a lot of shots that can fire while moving 12" but not weapons that do anything that standard gk's don't do anyway. I don't need more anti-infantry weapons, i need anti-tank and the only place they get it is in dreads and LR's.

A lot of people mistake the purpose of PAGK's and GKT's. All they see is that weapon skill and st6 weapons (power or standard) and assume that they are combat monsters. They are, but they are also I4 combat monsters that can't consolidate anymore. GK's are great counter assaulters. They are designed to whittle the enemy down to bite sized chunks, you play smart and keep you distance until it's time to bury the...halberd.

The style of unit you are describing is a 4th edition style unit. No one, especially the outnumbered gk's, can rely on a single super combat unit anymore. Which is another reason incinerators aren't all their cracked up to be anymore. If I'm going to get the most use out of it i'm going to have to put myself in a position to get charged by multiple opponents. Not something any GK player wants.

Hulksmash wrote:@Stormknight

So what your saying is it's a good idea to consolidate 50% of my army into a single alpha strike when i'm certainly going to be outnumbered, normally by a large margin? Seems like a mistake to let my enemy take me apart in smaller bite sized chunks.

And it's till lacking the extra anti-tank that a standard LR adds to a GK army. And one multi-melta vs. 2 TL-LC's doesn't even compare. Yes it's a lot of shots that can fire while moving 12" but not weapons that do anything that standard gk's don't do anyway. I don't need more anti-infantry weapons, i need anti-tank and the only place they get it is in dreads and LR's.

A lot of people mistake the purpose of PAGK's and GKT's. All they see is that weapon skill and st6 weapons (power or standard) and assume that they are combat monsters. They are, but they are also I4 combat monsters that can't consolidate anymore. GK's are great counter assaulters. They are designed to whittle the enemy down to bite sized chunks, you play smart and keep you distance until it's time to bury the...halberd.

The style of unit you are describing is a 4th edition style unit. No one, especially the outnumbered gk's, can rely on a single super combat unit anymore. Which is another reason incinerators aren't all their cracked up to be anymore. If I'm going to get the most use out of it i'm going to have to put myself in a position to get charged by multiple opponents. Not something any GK player wants.

Bitesize chunks? A LRC with GM+retinue (8wounds) isn't a bitesize.
Use a LR aswell then, the crusader is taking up the role of contesting objectives. pfff Multi-Melta is still good, Land Raiders take a long time to kill, so it does compare.
Yeah a standard Knight on foot, is going to provide bolter shots, he's going to die against a heavy weapons team, Which is why you use the LRC as a Assault Vehicle providing infantry support to the GKT.
Imo Grey Knight Terminators are CC monsters, Grey Knights are just efficient piling on wounds.
pfff Land Raider deploys the Grey Knights where you want. Then you place the Flame Template. Then you charge. Thats a counter-attack. The time you have placed the flame template and stormbolters, your probably not outnumbered.
Sorry but I don't play your style of game.
Multiple opponents??? please explain.
Imo if you want to waste your time playing GK's then do so, Pyscannons just won't kill enough troops to stop your opponent capping.
Carry on playing super-defensive and you won't win.

Yep, bite-sized since it's 1/3 of your army rushing into combat and unsupported by the rest of your forces.

LR don't take that long to kill once you get within 12" of the enemy since almost everyone has a melta equivelant and you've just moved that nice big juicy tank into their range. You just handed them a kill point, lost one of your "anti-tank" platforms, and stranded 400 more points outside of support range. Winning style indeed.

Multiple opponents mean that the enemy is almost always going to be able to concentrate more forces in reaction to your "thrust" of gkt's meaning you'll be facing more than one squad in the ensuing counter attack which you will lose your squad against most armies since only the GM and maybe another guy will survive the shooting.

We obviously play quite differently but I've yet to lose a game in 5th edition w/GK's. Granted thats only 7 games but the new rules were an awesome boost i feel for the GK's. It's not super-defensive, it's defensively offensive. You have to come to me or you let me whittle away your army a little at a time since i've got the range and the LR's as mobile line of site blockers.

Against a capable opponent against your overly aggressive style of play leads to death. I play that way but with my speed freak orks not with my greyknights since I've picked apart every GK player that plays with your style.

Agree to disagree and all.

Hulksmash wrote:Yep, bite-sized since it's 1/3 of your army rushing into combat and unsupported by the rest of your forces.

LR don't take that long to kill once you get within 12" of the enemy since almost everyone has a melta equivelant and you've just moved that nice big juicy tank into their range. You just handed them a kill point, lost one of your "anti-tank" platforms, and stranded 400 more points outside of support range. Winning style indeed.

Multiple opponents mean that the enemy is almost always going to be able to concentrate more forces in reaction to your "thrust" of gkt's meaning you'll be facing more than one squad in the ensuing counter attack which you will lose your squad against most armies since only the GM and maybe another guy will survive the shooting.

We obviously play quite differently but I've yet to lose a game in 5th edition w/GK's. Granted thats only 7 games but the new rules were an awesome boost i feel for the GK's. It's not super-defensive, it's defensively offensive. You have to come to me or you let me whittle away your army a little at a time since i've got the range and the LR's as mobile line of site blockers.

Against a capable opponent against your overly aggressive style of play leads to death. I play that way but with my speed freak orks not with my greyknights since I've picked apart every GK player that plays with your style.

Agree to disagree and all.

This is dumb then if your not going to take on board any of my views and make a debate over GK's we shall open a thread in tactica?
I have a battle report against speed freak orks if you'd like me post that.
Yes but I won't repeat myself, Smoke Launchers + assault the unit possibly with meltaguns --- done.
Lol unsupported by the rest of my army? do I now have to post my army list?
Stranded or not, Contesting objectives + eliminating troops is what they do efficiently, Pyscannons imo don't.
I agree it's always better to be positive through such "codex rough" times.
I think your confused, defence that kills incoming opponents yes. If you can get your GKT inside the LR to go contest then great.
Yes I also use mobile LOS block, atleast not so much in my current list, but it helps never the less when needed.
Yes you will wittle down my Inq lord (doesn't capture) my Land Raider (grey knight inside) and then somehow kill all gk's after that, then come to find my stormtroopers in reserve, Block Los, go to ground, and "run", rain plasma on anyone who gets too close.

I took your thoughts under consideration and pointed out why they wouldn't work for my playing style except for the extra armor. You then went on to say how I was wrong and that they would.

As far as a tactica thread goes if you would like to open one feel free. I was merely pointing out why I won't use your ideas.

It's you who seems to have problems accepting that your ideas don't fit my playing style. Which should be obvious as I play a pure GK army (everything has the GK rules) and you don't.

Your style may work with the other units you put in and maybe it would work for me should i ever decide not to be a purist. But for now they don't work. I didn't dismiss your ideas, i rationally pointed out why they don't work for me.

Feel free to post your army list if you like and we can take the discussion to PM but since you live in the UK we'll never play and really hash it out. Just because people don't take your advice doesn't mean their wrong my friend.