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I've pretty much been a 40K fanboy for all the time i've known about GW.

But, living away from the parents and such now, I look back on my lovely Thousand Sons army and recall the weekly debate with my mum as she insisted the cupboard it was on top of needed dusting. Having all those models is a bit of a pain to clean around, so alas, in my days of self-sufficiency (sp?) i'm going to opt for a WHFB army! Why?

1) Always wanted one, truth be told.
2) Regimented models look... well... organised!
3) Less fluff for the new-comer to fluff to unfluff!

So, whilst spare money is in short supply at this moment in time, it means that I can slowly build up a nice looking army that wont take up too much space AND cant easily be placed in regiment trays in the name of cleaning.

Now this thread delves where the other 429482 "Newcomer to WHFB" threads go, what army to pick?

Warriors of Chaos.

They've recently had a new army book come out, which I will have to get my hands on, but i've admired them for a bit, truth be told.
Whilst they might be the "flavour of the month" army, I generally like the fluff behind them, which unless i'm mistaken, is that they thoroughly enjoy days which end in the genocide of the false-god loving Empire population.

I'm going to guess that while the "gist" of WHFB is similar to 40k, there are numerous differences so I'm an absolute nublet in terms of knowing how to play.
With that said, from what i've read, I probably should STAY AWAY from Warriors of Chaos for a first army, since with the lack of long range capabilities an experienced opponent could just smother me with ranged attacks whilst I slog over the battlefield to do some maths with skulls and axes.

I'm not terribly against trial and error though, practice makes perfect, as they say.
Though no one enjoys losing all the time.

I read a thread on the Something Awful forums where a guy made a crazy simple display case using a cheap clear plastic topped case and some foamcore. To that degree, until I learn how to play, I could just make an aesthetically pleasing WoC army and display it.

So, despite me not really having... a love for dwarves (sorry to all you dwarf fans :<, I guess for £40 the Battle for Skull Pass is probably a great investment. Though... that's £10 shy of a nice starter WoC army set... could get my hands on a couple of Empire regiments or something... then I could make a really nice display case for them both. Then I have the means to learn the game and I guess The Empire might be a little more nub friendly.

Sorry for the wall-of-text that all my posts usually evolve into!

Completely different game. You'll get strategic thrills in all-new places, if you get that sort of thing in the first place. If you're more into the modelling side, there's plenty to be had, especially, as always, in Chaos armies.

Chaos will make for a nice cheap army (as in expensive units), but not great for an inexperienced player vs. the usual armies you'll face in WHFB. High Elves do well, VC are great at lower scales, and Skaven can trample all over everything when things don't backfire. Bretonians have nice punch for new players as well.
I started playing O&G, but they're not so great in 7th ed IMO.

EDIT: If you're a fan of Tzeentch, there's a few nice tricks you can pull in WHFB.

Bretonians might be a nice starter army.

The Battalion contains a nice mix of units and they'd look pretty swish painted up.
Then i'd have an impressive Pegasus Knight, some KotR to flank people with (I guess cavalry are used to swing round the sides and cause mayhem), some Men at Arms to slog across the battlefield and some Bowmen behind them to thin out enemy numbers.

I guess their army book is still in need of a revamp? Since it seems GW are redoing most of them, if they haven't redone Bret's already.
I'll have to read through some Bret based battle reports methinks!

As for the other suggestions, I can't really work out how Skaven are played, so I might actually investigate that too .

Elves by nature sound quite brittle when pitted against foes that hit with the force of a truck, though I guess that's a nub's P.O.V. and by the time the enemy has even thought about raising their weapon, the elf has no doubt slashed it's throat in 27 different places.

And Vampire Counts are slightly over-powered at the moment, if i've read things correctly? This might be due to their new army book... (they have a new army book right?).

And one last question, when someone says "Empire cheese list" or "<RaceHere> cheese list"... what do they mean?

Skaven are a bit tricky to play as they lack Cavalry and Flyers entirely though you can field massive units of Skirmishers to help make up for it. Skaven are more or less a Horde army, I ran two blocks of 30 Clanrats at 1000pts and had some success. They are basically a do or die army. When they work they are insanely powerful but when they fail, they fail spectacularly. I've had my entire army panic in one round and run off the table the next.

"Cheese" is a concept that is best not explained by me since I'm not a firm believer in it.

Brettonia, empire or dwarfs are the best to learn with in my opinion. Easy to use(for the most part) and don't have alot of special rules to remember. High elves have been made a little more noob friendly due to the Always Strike First rule, which gave them the ability to survive a charge, though their low armour on most of their troops ;eaves them vulnerable to missile fire and magic. I havn't had a chance to play with darkelves or chaos yet, but they seem a little tougher to use. Orcs and Goblins can be frustrating because of the rondom nature of the army. LIzard men are another more advanced army due to the fact that they rely heavily on light armoured skirmishers and short range weapons as their main force, but they can be really fun, especially when you get into the big dinosaurs. vampire ounts are a tough army, though I don't think they are too powerful. at least i have never lost to them.

I must admit, I've not really seen too many Lizardmen models up close since before GW brought out the multipose stuff.
They harken to the side of me that loves all the tribalistic/history of the Aztecs/Mayans, i'll do some reading.

Couldn't find any reports featuring Brettonians. Unless there's some amoung the GT threads.

I also read some VC reports, they do seem to be fairly balanced from my POV in the sense that it's not overly difficult to screw yourself over.
And I would no doubt whore the Raise Dead spell just because I could (But then, as i've read, i'd watch as the raised unit is bathed in arrows and my opponent's mouth widens to a sadistic smile as he tallys up more VPs).

Skaven didn't really find a place in my heart, they're certainly an interesting race. But, just not for me!

Are the Lizzies really a bit more than a nub could chew on for a first army?
In the name of learning the basics getting a small force of a simpler army (like the Brets) isn't exactly a bad thing in either case.

Avoid the Dwarfs. I started with them. The models are cool, the fluff and imagery are amazing, but they are terribly boring to play with. And when you try to change your play style to something interesting (ie. something that MOVES), it's like putting a noose around your neck and doing half your opponents work for them.

For a starter army, Empire is absolutely solid. Lizzies are pretty good too, but they're about to get a new book.

High Elves are very forgiving, but I don't like them as much for a new player since ASF takes away a lot of the game learning experience, IMO.

Bretts are pretty good, but in general they are overall extremely straight forward and you will eventually fall into the trap of "all Lances" since their infantry is just terrible.

VC, Tomb Kings, and Daemons are a drastically "different" kind of army in WHFB and both VC and Daemons are on a power level all their own. That won't be as apparent to a new player, but they are in general very forgiving and it's hard to make a bad choice in army selection with them.

From what I can tell, Lizzies have the potential to rip opponents to shreds yet keep a sort of fragile aura which requires learning how to best use the Skinks as cannon fodder.

That said it also has massive beasties with slabs of muscle itching to smush something, the ariel nuissance of flyer units, flank endangering cavalry aaand potent magic.

So all in all, they seem like an all-round nice army to learn the many aspects of WHFB with.

And they have some awesome fluff.
Not to mention the fun one could have modelling a sacrifice scene :>

Is there an ETA on when their new army book is out? Or is it just a "wait and see" affair?
I could just risk getting the old armybook for now, or is it so old that i'd no doubt be heavily "gimped" (for lack of a better word) against any army with a new armybook?

Lizardmen are expected feb/march-ish next year.

As to your first army, having just read through the new WD with the Chaos review in it, I have to say you could do a lot worse than to take these guys as a starter army.

The new models are fantastic, the combos look interesting and you can go infantry, cavalry or monster - heavy to suit your taste. Small elite army is possible (and useful on a low budget) while marauders still give you an option to go horde if you prefer.

Lizards are good, but there will be New Kroxigor models and a new (Plastic) Stegadon model set, as well as Plastic Temple Guard. I don't think anything other new/major is coming out for the kits other than characters.

FYI, their Magic sucks unless you're going to take a Slann Mage Priest, and if you do that then you better tailor your list to suit taking him, since it is a very hefty investment in a very specific kind of model that uses the Magic Phase in a set kind of way.

I just wanted to point that out, since if you don't want to take a Slann then you really shouldn't take a whole lot of mages for anything other than defensive purposes.

And FYI, expect how each Slann works to change drastically in the new book. Ditto for things like Salamanders as well.

I would probably go with a Slann-Mage Priest, just due to the fact it makes a pretty nice center piece.

It seems with each reply comes different responses I guess coming along to WHFB during a massive codex revamp wasn't the greatest time to do such a thing.

If Calvin's overview of Warriors of Chaos is a good 'un (didn't they scrap Hordes of Chaos? Or is that just because the HoC codex isn't "valid" anymore due to Warriors/Daemons having new codexes out whilst Beastmen are still trailing behind?) then I guess sticking to my primary choice can't be too bad.

Either way, I think it'll be worth it just for the aesthetics alone to get some Lizzies when the new codex/models are out.

Least with Warriors of Chaos I guess i'm not taking an "easy-mode" route . Not that I get bonus points for making life harder for myself...

I'm the grand old age of 22 soon... let us hope many relatives remember and slip the ol' £10 note into the birthday card Then I forsee a trip to Helsinki...

EDIT: Well done if you noticed I still cannot grasp Finland uses euros and not the good ol' British pound

Out of curiosity, do GW do the poly...erm... plastics glue *name escapes me* but with a tiny needle protruding from the nozzle? Back in the day I had one from a touring car model kit and the needle like hole the glue came out of was awesome for not drenching an Ork's armpit in glue.

I don't recommend GW's polystyrene cement. I recommend Testors or Elmers they tend to be higher viscosity and thus less prone to accidents.

Be aware that with Lizardmen you won't be able to take a Slann-Mage below 2000 pts and they Skink mages are kinda squishy.

Chaos Wizards are not at all squishy as all are T4 and come with a minimum 4+ save and can get tougher fairly easily.

Well, with 60 euros slowly working its way to me, I opted to get Battle for Skull Pass over the Warriors of Chaos Battalion.

The reasons being:
1) I have no idea how much GW stuff is in euros, since GW don't have localised sites any more and I have no idea if any of GW Helsinki's staff speak English.
2) I believe there is a store not too far from GW Helsinki called Fantasiapelit... which DO have a website. Though their stuff seems pricier than what i'd imagine it to be in euros since if you got a perfect exchange rate right now, £50 (amount for a battalion) would get you 63 euros. They listed a Dwarf Battalion for 80 euros. Finland is meant to be an expensive ol' place though.
3) I realised, with selling all my old 40k stuff before I left England, I also parted with all my dice, templates aaaand measuring rulers. So I guess having two armys to learn the basics of the game, some terrain and all the stuff I need to play is probably a wise investment at this stage.

I will heed the calls of the Chaos gods though, soon enough
Me thinks I might give Slaanesh a go... if I haven't already mentioned that in a previous post...

EDIT: That glue I was on about: http://www.deepskyrocketshop.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=1230 (I'm not into rockets, tis just to show you what the glue I was on about looks like. Lasted AGES too, through a Dark Eldar Battle Force... Ork Battle Force... the 40k boxed game... the Tyrannids... the Chaos. Twas a pain cleaning the glue needle thing... but hey!

The battle for skull pass can be adapted in to Chaos Dwarves if you want to go that route.

the new chaos models are gorgeous. the vast majority of the new models that GW have released for WFB have been fantastic but the chaos ones are particularly stunning.

something that you have to remember about fantasy as opposed to 40K is that not everyone has a gun. those models that do have ranged weapons either have rather low strength or are in few enough number that yo dont have to worry about them too much. combine this with the fact that your infanty is either going to be in large enough numbers that losing a few models to shooting wont really matter, or hard enough that they dont care. WFB is more a game of manuvering than shooting and it is a very rare army that can win by shooting alone (although it does happen). you really do have to think about it as a completely different game and let go of you move/shoot/assault 40K mentality.

Regwon wrote:the new chaos models are gorgeous. the vast majority of the new models that GW have released for WFB have been fantastic but the chaos ones are particularly stunning.

something that you have to remember about fantasy as opposed to 40K is that not everyone has a gun. those models that do have ranged weapons either have rather low strength or are in few enough number that yo dont have to worry about them too much. combine this with the fact that your infanty is either going to be in large enough numbers that losing a few models to shooting wont really matter, or hard enough that they dont care. WFB is more a game of manuvering than shooting and it is a very rare army that can win by shooting alone (although it does happen). you really do have to think about it as a completely different game and let go of you move/shoot/assault 40K mentality.

While Chaos technically has shooting it might as well not and VC's don't have anything at all as far as I know though they do have magic to hell from what I understand (I think people just don't bring enough wizards but that's me)

Lizard men were my first army and i have a blast with them and the painting was freaken wonderful!

Shooting is perfectly viable in WHFB and armies that field large amounts of shooting (Dwarves, Empire, Skaven, Lizardmen) do not lack S and will often wreck Chaos armor (handguns, for example are S4 and -2 AS). In this case speed is the savior. Unfortunately, Chaos no longer has fliers (other than the disc), so it is a bit trickier to get at shooters and weapon crews.

Skull Pass is a good intro, but I don't know about sticking with those armies. Dwarves are dull (but make a hell of a gunline) and goblin heavy O&G requires tons of models to paint and simply isn't very good (prone to panic, fewer models than last ed, relatively poor combat ability). I recommend using them to learn and practice you painting on.