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Well, after playing a fairly useless "experimental" list last week and sucking big time, I'm trying for a bit more consistency in the "killy" tactic.

This is the 1500pt list I'm going to try and put together for thursday unless anyone can point out any glaring omissions. Originally there was going to be a Nobz squad in there as an extra troops choice, 6 man squad with 2 pks and a waaagh banner, but I've swapped them out for the 2 kopta squadrons instead.

HQ:

Warboss, Power Klaw, Twin Linked Shoota, Cybork, Bosspole, 'Eavy Armour. 110

Big Mek, Shokk Attack Gun, Boss Pole, 'Eavy Armour, Ammo Runt. 108

Elites:

6 Lootas with Deffguns, 2 Meks with Kustom Mega Blastas. 120

6 Burna Boyz, 2 Meks with Kustom Mega Blastas. 120

6 Tankbusta boyz, 1 Tank Hammer, 1 Nob, Power Klaw, 'Eavy Armour, Bosspole. 155

Troops:

29 Shoota Boyz, 3 Big Shootas, 1 Nob, Big Choppa, Bosspole. 215

29 Ard Boyz (sluggas and choppas), 1 Ard Boy Nob, Power Klaw, Boss Pole. 340

Fast Attack:

3 DeffKoptas, Twin Linked Big Shootas, 1 Big Bomm. 120

3 DeffKoptas, Twin Linked Big Shootas, 1 Big Bomm. 120

Heavy Support:

1 Deff Dread, 2 Dread CCWs, 2 Big Shootas, Grot Riggers. 90

1498 pts.

Opinions? I could put some rokkits in the deffkopta squadrons, but they're expensive and I don't really like Ork Rokkits.

I'd play the SAG with the Lootas Squad like a Marine Devastator Squad.

Run the Ard Boyz and Burnas into combat with the Shootas slowly slogging across the field laying down fire support before assaulting later.

Use the Tankbustas as fire support or to take out big targets and vehicles. Try and avoid them assaulting any decent infantry as they'll probably run away.

Run the Warboss in up front either with the Ard Boyz or maybe with the Burnas so they can assault without running away.

Use the Deffkoptas as mobile fire support and send the Deff Dread in to crack any knots of resistance. The deff dread could be given skorchas so it could run all the way into close combat, or used as it is at the moment with six 36" shots per turn. 8)

The last few weeks I've been running with lots of buggies and trukks and they've been a bit unpredictable, some games they hang around til turn 3 or 4 shooting stuff up, most games they explode on turn one. This week I'm leaving those at home, along with my big gunz which proved particularly craptacular last week against SM, CSM and Eldar.

For your elites choices I think you're trying to do far too much and spreading yourself too thin.

I'm not entirely sure that a group of 6 Burna Boyz with 2 Meks will ever see combat. They're essentially a free kill point for your opponent.

The same is true for Tankbustas and your Lootas. Personally I feel that Lootas are amazing and worth taking as many as possible of.

You could take out the squad of Tankbustas, upgrade your Deffkoptas to Rokkit-Launcha status and save a crapton of money on your car ins... points.

I would run your Deffkoptas in a group of 5 instead of two groups of 6. Though perhaps a bit less maneuverable you're not going to run away when you lose a single kopta. You said that you weren't a fan of the rokkit launchas but twin-linked on a jet-bike beats single-shot on foot any day.

These changes would save you 40 points on the extra Deffkopta and 135 on the Tankbustas (as you need to spend the 5 points per kopta for the launchas).

Aside from that, I'd take more boyz and more lootas.

Check out the list I'm running. I'm looking for constructive criticism on it so please toss in your opinions too!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/221205.page

Imo, the Warboss would find more use from a Combi-Skorcha than a TL Shoota. Costs the same and lets you put down a nice template before the charge.

ok drop ardboyz they are going to die like flyes anyway. remove burnas and tank bbustas and take more lootas remove hose meks from your lootas and add more lootas you would be abel to take atleast 2x10 with that points.

then add more shoota boyz

Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:Imo, the Warboss would find more use from a Combi-Skorcha than a TL Shoota. Costs the same and lets you put down a nice template before the charge.

Aye, maybe you're right. I might try and make a detachable flamer conversion to go in the bottom shoota barrel so I can pick and choose.

If you want killy:

- Drop Bustas and Burnas and put all those points in Lootas.
- No 'ard Boyz. And make them Shootas. Sluggas are bah on foot.
- Deffdread and Koptas, point sinks. More Shootas.

Sorry if that came out as "go cookiecutter", but Deffdreads are not worth it and Koptas just don't do enough... Maybe a single squad of 5 with shootas, no bigbooms, but that's enough to buy you a squad of 20 scoring shootas with a PK Bosspole Nob and 2 Big Shootas (170). You decide what suits you better.

I guess I'm still wanting to see how all these different units work, and also I want to have fun playing it rather than just outright win garuntee... Obviously a lot of the fun is in winning or at least in not sucking, so a better list than last week is good, but I'm still just throwing odd units in so I can see how they'll do. Also, I'm still slightly limited on what I've got built!!

Deffdeads with 4 dccw are nothing to laugh at just keep him close to your bigmek and walk forward ure oponent is stupid if he lets it live

The problem is that your army has no focus.
You're falling into the "too-cool-not-to-have-it" rut.
You want 'ard boyz, cuz they're harder than boyz. You want Burnas, tank bustas and lootas because they're cool. You want...

See where I'm going?

So, check this out. I'm not going to tell you HOW to build your army. I don't know what models you have. What I am going to do is show you what does and does not work with your army.

HQ:

Warboss, Power Klaw, Twin Linked Shoota, Cybork, Bosspole, 'Eavy Armour. 110

Big Mek, Shokk Attack Gun, Boss Pole, 'Eavy Armour, Ammo Runt. 108

What does the Warboss need a Bosspole for? Won't your Nob have one? It won't be bad, in case the Nob he's attached to dies, but if you find yourself looking for points to trim, look here. Same goes for Cybork.

Big Mek needs a PK or, minimum, a Burna. What happens if he fires his SAG and accidentally teleports himself into HtH with a hard hitting unit? He needs to be able to hit back. PK will allow him to make squishy noises of just about everything (if he survives their attacks), while a Burna will allow him to ignore their armor saves). He'll be able to defend himself better, too, against armies that deep strike and/or infiltrate.

Elites:

6 Lootas with Deffguns, 2 Meks with Kustom Mega Blastas. 120

6 Burna Boyz, 2 Meks with Kustom Mega Blastas. 120

6 Tankbusta boyz, 1 Tank Hammer, 1 Nob, Power Klaw, 'Eavy Armour, Bosspole. 155

GAH! My eyes!

You need focus here. Twenty to 26 points PER MODEL (on average) is horrifyingly expensive for Orks, too. You need to decide WHAT place each unit will have and sacrifice units that overlap unnecessarily or are unneeded.

Troops:

29 Shoota Boyz, 3 Big Shootas, 1 Nob, Big Choppa, Bosspole. 215

29 Ard Boyz (sluggas and choppas), 1 Ard Boy Nob, Power Klaw, Boss Pole. 340

This is where you're going to get spanked. YOU do NOT have enough Boyz. You need a MINIMUM of 4 Boyz units (IMO) in a 1500 point list. Especially since many or most won't make it to see combat.
Foot Slogger Orks have their place, but I prefer Trukk Boyz, myself. For the points you have in your Mobz, I could buy about 3.5 Trukk Boy squads with tricked out trukks (red paint job, stikk bomb chukkas). Orks need to get STUCK IN.

If you like 'Ard Boys, and want to keep them, you might look into Mad Dok Grotsnik for the FNP roll. I like him more than the Warboss, myself.

Fast Attack:

3 DeffKoptas, Twin Linked Big Shootas, 1 Big Bomm. 120

3 DeffKoptas, Twin Linked Big Shootas, 1 Big Bomm. 120

I love Deff Koptas, but they die fast.
Too many points in these means quick & easy KP for your opponent.
For the cost of ONE squad of DK's, you could but 20 Boyz. Think about it.

Heavy Support:

1 Deff Dread, 2 Dread CCWs, 2 Big Shootas, Grot Riggers. 90

Not a fan of the Dreds. Not a fan of ANY Heavy slot for Orks, 'cept Battlewagons.
What "Big Guns" did you use before? If you want to use them, I suggest to take only Kannons or Lobbas and stick to the blast profiles. A miss is a miss, but a scatter can still be a hit! LOL

Your first thought for ANY unit bought in any army (but especially Orks) should be "What will its' role be?"
Question #2: "Is there anything that can fill that role better?"
Question #3: "How many Boyz could I buy for these points, and is it worth the sacrifice?"

Remember, Orcs strength lies in numbers. If you don't have numbers, you don't win.
Fifth edition games (mostly) rely on troops. If you don't have troops, you don't win.
The Orc army's best weapon it its' boyz. As troop choices, they combine the BEST of the above 2 points.

You have 87 models in your force, and that is with NO transports or vehicles (not counting the walker as it has no transport capacity). That's not that great. If you're foot slogging it, you should be near 100 or even higher.

Just my thoughts.
Eric

Hey, cheers dude, that's awesome.

MagickalMemories wrote:The problem is that your army has no focus.
You're falling into the "too-cool-not-to-have-it" rut.
You want 'ard boyz, cuz they're harder than boyz. You want Burnas, tank bustas and lootas because they're cool. You want...

See where I'm going?

So, check this out. I'm not going to tell you HOW to build your army. I don't know what models you have. What I am going to do is show you what does and does not work with your army.

HQ:

Warboss, Power Klaw, Twin Linked Shoota, Cybork, Bosspole, 'Eavy Armour. 110

Big Mek, Shokk Attack Gun, Boss Pole, 'Eavy Armour, Ammo Runt. 108

What does the Warboss need a Bosspole for? Won't your Nob have one? It won't be bad, in case the Nob he's attached to dies, but if you find yourself looking for points to trim, look here. Same goes for Cybork. if he leads one of the squads that only have Mek options, not Nob options, into combat, it should be worth it. I'm really thinking about the burnas here I guess?

Big Mek needs a PK or, minimum, a Burna. What happens if he fires his SAG and accidentally teleports himself into HtH with a hard hitting unit? He needs to be able to hit back. PK will allow him to make squishy noises of just about everything (if he survives their attacks), while a Burna will allow him to ignore their armor saves). He'll be able to defend himself better, too, against armies that deep strike and/or infiltrate. I didn't know a Big Mek could carry a SAG AND a PK or Burna? I think there might be a misprint in the 'Dex as I'm pretty sure it should read "can exchange slugga and choppa for Shokk Attack Gun, KFF, Mega Armour, warbike" etc. Also as he'd be standing with the Lootas the two Meks with KMBs would eb there to protect him unless he throws himself across the battlefield, in which case the silly bastard is pretty much screwed!

Elites:

6 Lootas with Deffguns, 2 Meks with Kustom Mega Blastas. 120

6 Burna Boyz, 2 Meks with Kustom Mega Blastas. 120

6 Tankbusta boyz, 1 Tank Hammer, 1 Nob, Power Klaw, 'Eavy Armour, Bosspole. 155

GAH! My eyes!

You need focus here. Twenty to 26 points PER MODEL (on average) is horrifyingly expensive for Orks, too. You need to decide WHAT place each unit will have and sacrifice units that overlap unnecessarily or are unneeded. I know. My bad. I'm still doing it though, just because I've NEVER fielded any of these units before, so I fancy seeing what they can do. All at once.

Troops:

29 Shoota Boyz, 3 Big Shootas, 1 Nob, Big Choppa, Bosspole. 215

29 Ard Boyz (sluggas and choppas), 1 Ard Boy Nob, Power Klaw, Boss Pole. 340

This is where you're going to get spanked. YOU do NOT have enough Boyz. You need a MINIMUM of 4 Boyz units (IMO) in a 1500 point list. Especially since many or most won't make it to see combat.
Foot Slogger Orks have their place, but I prefer Trukk Boyz, myself. For the points you have in your Mobz, I could buy about 3.5 Trukk Boy squads with tricked out trukks (red paint job, stikk bomb chukkas). Orks need to get STUCK IN. Our opinion differs... I've run trukk boyz a few times now and the trukks get blown up, the squad has to take a hit then footslog the rest of the way anyway, total waste of time, and resulting in tiny squads. Agree that more boyz ought to be on the table, but I'm also interested to see how much longer Ard Boyz stay on the table than 6+ boyz.

If you like 'Ard Boys, and want to keep them, you might look into Mad Dok Grotsnik for the FNP roll. I like him more than the Warboss, myself.

Good plan, I agree, I just don't have one yet.

Fast Attack:

3 DeffKoptas, Twin Linked Big Shootas, 1 Big Bomm. 120

3 DeffKoptas, Twin Linked Big Shootas, 1 Big Bomm. 120

I love Deff Koptas, but they die fast.
Too many points in these means quick & easy KP for your opponent.
For the cost of ONE squad of DK's, you could but 20 Boyz. Think about it.

Admittedly here I could whittle these guys down a bit and put more Boyz on the table instead... but I want the Deffkoptas to have enough time to kill stuff before they explode or run away. Actually, a single squad of five would probably be better for that.

Heavy Support:

1 Deff Dread, 2 Dread CCWs, 2 Big Shootas, Grot Riggers. 90

Not a fan of the Dreds. Not a fan of ANY Heavy slot for Orks, 'cept Battlewagons. my dread has been awesome in every game so far, except against a Land Raider Crusader full of Grey Knights Terminators. Understandable really! I'm getting some more, or making some more, the £35 price tag sucks for such an awesome killy unit.
What "Big Guns" did you use before? If you want to use them, I suggest to take only Kannons or Lobbas and stick to the blast profiles. A miss is a miss, but a scatter can still be a hit! LOL Kannons, but against gnarly SM and Eldar units that were too tough to notice the templates, so I had to go for krak shots every time. At BS3 I just wasn't hitting them enough. Or at all, frankly.

Your first thought for ANY unit bought in any army (but especially Orks) should be "What will its' role be?"
Question #2: "Is there anything that can fill that role better?"
Question #3: "How many Boyz could I buy for these points, and is it worth the sacrifice?"

Remember, Orcs strength lies in numbers. If you don't have numbers, you don't win.
Fifth edition games (mostly) rely on troops. If you don't have troops, you don't win.
The Orc army's best weapon it its' boyz. As troop choices, they combine the BEST of the above 2 points.

You have 87 models in your force, and that is with NO transports or vehicles (not counting the walker as it has no transport capacity). That's not that great. If you're foot slogging it, you should be near 100 or even higher.

Just my thoughts.
Eric

Cheers buddy! I know I ought to have more boyz in a horde army, but I'm grinning like a buffoon too much to do anything about the points tied up in specialist units and Ard Boyz! I know all those specialists are going to die, but I want to see which ones I like best so I can decide which ones to make more of.