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I know this has probably been asked somewhere but here's the scene. I'm playing in a match as SM against orks in a 4 objective scenario. Orks are controlling 3 objectives, I have a scout squad with sniper rifles on mine, he had 30 troops on one and 10 troop on the other closest to me. Now the objective as place almost in a perfect triangle. Scout squad is on the bottom right, 30 orks on bottom left, and 10 orks on the top tip. Its the bottom of the 4th turn. I have a LRR with 10 sternguard and a librarian in the LRR about 9 inches from the bottom left corner. My opponent is already celebrating taking first and telling me that second is not so bad in my first tourny, and I am looking for a way to tie, when it hits me. I move the LRR up to the 30 orks in range to contest that objective, then using the Librarian gate, without disembarking, to teleport the sternguard to contest the other objective. Thinking that I just tied, I realized I could win. I fired the sternguard killing 8 of the orks and the snipers took out the other 2. So we roll and the game ends. I control 2 objectives and he has 1 with one contested by the LRR and orks. All my friends are shocked. Then my opponent goes into cry-baby mode. Now I know this is my first tourny but I think everything was legal, even the store owner said that it was a brillant move for such a novice player. My opponents starts argueing that I cannot use the ability in the transport. But when I was playing an Eldar player he used doom and forture inside a wave serpant. Then he says that I should have losted a sternguard when i rolled scatter dice, because even tho the scatter showed on target, I rolled double on the distance (I roll all 3 dice together but I didn't scatter). Then at some point as I was waiting calmly, and him still yelling, the store owner tells him that his decision is final, I win. I go to shake the guys hand, he grabs his army, yells a few more obscene remarks about cheese, and leaves without his prize. Did I do anything illegal, wrong, or maybe break some unwritten gameplay etiqutte I am unaware of? And not to sound too new.....what the heck is cheese?

*edit* had pedro in the army so sternguard counted as a scoring unit, forgot to mention that*

Cheese is a term meaning that your army selection/ tactics etc. are overpowered. Although some will say that this just means that you are a better army selector/ tactician than your opponent. Always bringing a Cheesy army to friendly games ( and whipping everyone) is considered bad form - but for a tournament - hey play to win - that's the point isn't it.

On to the the other points - If you roll a double using Gate of Infinity you only lose a model if the deep strike scatters, so in this case (as you rolled a hit) you sternguard are fine.

HOWEVER - the recent rules FAQ says that the only psychic powers you can use from a vehicle are ones that replace/act as shooting attacks so you wouldn't be able to Gate out of the land raider. - You were lucky the tournament organiser hadn't read/remembered the FAQ.

Edit: - Ignore the 3rd paragraph. I was reading the wrong FAQ . Thanks for setting me straight guys and sorry for the confusion

ya but he could have just gotten out of the land raider before it moved and then gated.

There are still ways to do it form what it sounds like.

this is perfectly legal. you can use psychic powers while embarked on a vehicle. if the power requires a target you must have line of sight but it is assumed that you have line of sight to the vehicle you are embarked on and any other models that are also embarked. gate of infinity is probably the best psychic power that SM have. its especially good with locator beacons.

as far as ettiquette and cheese are concerned, in a tournament setting it is assumed that most people will be bringing effective armies. the point of a tournament is to win and so that is what most concentrate on doing. as long as you were polite and followed to rules (which it seems you were) there you did all that was reasonably expected of you. being overly argumentative and whiney after a judge has made his final descision is not good form. your opponent should have waited until the round was finished and then taken his complaints to the head judge.

Kapitan Montag wrote:
HOWEVER - the recent rules FAQ says that the only psychic powers you can use from a vehicle are ones that replace/act as shooting attacks so you wouldn't be able to Gate out of the land raider. - You were lucky the tournament organiser hadn't read/remembered the FAQ.

can you quote this FAQ and link its location because it would not allow eldar psychic powers to be used from within a vehicle, which is well established

Yah, Kaptain Montag is mistaken. The official GW FAQ *specifically* allows non-shooting psychic powers to be used by embarked models/units:

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2030054_40k_Rulebook_Oct_2008.pdf

Page one, top of right-hand column.

This was your first tourney? Well done. I mean, seriously, bravo sir, well done. That is definitely an advanced maneuver, and for you to pull victory out of certain defeat is worthy of the annals of your chapter.

Great job beating an Ork Flavor of the Month army with sound tactics.

Don't you mean beating a Flavor of the Month army...with a new Flavor of the Month?!!!

LOL

Congrats on your win, everything was perfectly legal ASAICT. i think your opponant's frusteration stems from:

A. a lack of rules knowledge that indeed allows your tactic. I get frusterated as well when something happens that I didn't know could happen.

B. Overconfidence. To be congratulating you on your 2nd place when the game's not over is really lame/stupid. Makes him look even more stupid when you pull out the win you did.

C. Marine-Hate. which is even more rampant now that the Marine dex' is SO very much better (and new). I have several issues with the new book and the subsequent noob-flood it has started. I'm not aiming at anyone specific, but there are like 10 new Marine armies at my store (Half of which are Vulkanized). This will all die down when the IG book comes out and they can have 10 Leman Russes in 2K points...or something.

Amazing victory!

Honestly, your opponent only has himself to blame. He should have been aware of the gating Librarian and the rules behind using psychic powers in transports. His failure to nutralize this threat cost him the game. His behaviour cost him respect. EPIC FAIL for him!

Flavius Infernus wrote:Yah, Kaptain Montag is mistaken. The official GW FAQ *specifically* allows non-shooting psychic powers to be used by embarked models/units:

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2030054_40k_Rulebook_Oct_2008.pdf

Page one, top of right-hand column.

Aw shukks sorry guys. I had saved various FAQs to my hard drive and thought I was looking at the latest one (when I wasn't)

Its much better the correct way - allowing psychic abilities from in vehicles. And it means OP's victory was all cool - great win.

Correct me if i am wrong but i dont think the move was allowed

Gate is used instead of moving.
If you are embarked on a transport and it moves you count as moving (so you cant fire heavy weapons from a rhino)
ergo, if you move the land raider you cant gate out of it.

I would imagine you can gate out then move the land raider.

By RAW you might be find a way around this but I think your being pretty manipulative of the rules that way.

Good point Cypher. Gate of Infinity must be used at the start of the librarians move phase . (I checked - and the right rules this time )

So if you moved the landraider first, you can't gate out of it.

This does sound like a "trick" and without seeing it coming your opponent can't blame you. I would just welcome him to 5th edition... more tricks to come. Note that tricks = tactics to most people that can read.

I would second what Cypher said... gate first then move the land raider. Everything else is completely fine.

cypher wrote:Correct me if i am wrong but i dont think the move was allowed

Gate is used instead of moving.
If you are embarked on a transport and it moves you count as moving (so you cant fire heavy weapons from a rhino)
ergo, if you move the land raider you cant gate out of it.

I would imagine you can gate out then move the land raider.

By RAW you might be find a way around this but I think your being pretty manipulative of the rules that way.

Nice catch

Actually, you can move as a disembarkation, Which is what the gate would be doing.

That doesn't change that it has to be used at the beginning of the movement phase

The Librarian and the SG could have simply teleported at the beginning of the movement phase prior to the LRR moving.

Great strategic thinking fella! I am very impressed.

G

Well I talked to the store owner, who was the judge and told him about the situation with the librarian power being at the beginning of the librarians movement. He still had the terrain out and we measured from the point of the LRR was at to the top objective and it was only 19 inches. So I told him we could redo the last round if the kid wanted, I didn't want to cheat anyone, but the store owner said it was a very nice gesture but his ruling was going to stand. Apparantly the kid had been in earlier and played and lost, got mad, and got banned from the store. He threw a trukk against the wall and almost hit another kid playing magic with it. The kid has mental issues. The thing to me is this was a 5 dollar friendly tourny. Everyone was having a good time. So for my first tourny til the end it was great.

I guess I did mess up with reading of the rules. I thought that I would have to use the power before disembarking, since that would be the start of the librarians movement, rather then before the LRR moved. Next time I will know better. Thanks guys.

One thing I try to keep in mind about the outcome of misunderstood rules. In my opinion, you (that's the philosophical you, as an all of us ) and your opponent have an equal part in trying to assure accuracy of all rules, for both players. This is a slightly extreme case, but it's as much your job to know that his Carnifex defaults with 3WS, as it is his job to tell you. I'm not suggesting everyone be an ultra-suspicious player who questions everything their opponent tells them, but you're doing everyone a favor, yourself included, to be as familiar with your opponent's army as he is.

Now this is obviously a daunting task for newer players (I should know, the time it took me to learn my own unit's stat lines for my first army is probably a world record! ), and no one actually expects you to know every nuance of every rule, but like the GI Joes said, "knowledge is power!" ouch, self-shamed....

Take your opponent here. If he had been familiar with the rules behind the Gate of Infinity, he could have politely inquired about any suspected errors before you finished your turn, let alone finished both the game and tourney. Frankly, if he didn't at least say "hmm, something about that didn't feel right. Do you mind if we take a look at your codex, and clarify the rule on that psychic power? I'm a little confused." But he was obviously a psychopathic spaz, and should be avoided like the plague.

Remember boys and girls, in 40k there's no such thing as a trick. There are no secret rulebooks only the GT winners get to read, with special units only they can field. Though come to think of it that's starting to sound fun.....

Congratz on your tourney win Swarmlord, and more importantly congratz for a cunning double-contest. I'm glad you've also noticed that going second is the new going first