Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Evidently the Book of St. Lucius functions differently under 5th edition.

The issue is whether a unit within 6 inches of the model wielding the Book of St. Lucius that is in close combat and subsequently loses close combat will be able to use the unmodified leadership of the wielder of the Book of St. Lucius without deficits from combat resolution.

The rule for the Book of St. Lucius is that any unit within 6 inches of a model wielding the book can use the wielder's unmodified leadership.

My opinion is that the Unit losing combat can use the unmodified leadership of the wielder but it can be raised or lowered as part of the process of figuring out combat resolution. But the unmodified leadership of the wielder is used as a base for combat resolution.

Unmodified means no modification. A Booked-up Sister with Ld10 is going to give your guys Ld10 regardless of how much you lost your combat by.

Rulebook page 44 wrote:Losing an Assault
Units that lose a close combat (ie, they suffer more
wounds than they inflict) must pass a Morale check
to hold their ground. If they fail, they must fall back.
Units taking this Morale Check suffer a -1 Ld
modifier for each wound their side has lost the
combat by.

Codex Witch Hunters page 20 wrote:Book of St. Lucius
This great tome contains the many
inspirational writings and sermons of
St. Lucius of Agatha. Any friendly unit
with a model within 6" may use the
bearer's unmodified Leadership value
for any Morale checks or Pinning tests it
is required to take.

Unmodified Leadership means no modifiers.

I agree, this item is pretty freaking COOL!

Actually it's generally a pretty bad thing, unless you've specifically built your army to incorporate tarpitting conscripts or something similar. Keeping your guys stuck in the assault means you're not going to be able to shoot that unit on the next turn, leaving them free to assault again on their turn. If one of my Guard squads gets hit, I want them to inflict a couple casualties and die so that I can blow them away when my shooting comes up.

Sour clams has it. The unmodified thing can be good... but it is a mixed blessing

Tactically, there's certainly stuff to consider when choosing to use the Book.

Rule-wise 5th edition took away some modifications and added some modifications. The Book works on the new ones like it did on the old ones.

See, that's why the Book of St Lucius says that you "may" use the model's unmodified Leadership. If you want the unit to run away/die - then don't use the book.

Yes, it is 5 points of awesome.

No, its five points of broken. What we really need is a good 'ol fashion book burning.

The book was strong in 4th ed, but what it does in fifth ed is stupidly powerful for just 5 points. Much like the Tau disruption pod in that respect.

Its just one of those wargear items that really got powerful in the new edition.

I don't know about broken. I don't think it will win that many games. But it's certainly underpriced.

Other stuff in the codex is certainly overpriced though so I guess it evens out.

It's always been broken good, actually.

4th and 5th made little difference.

How little?

2 point difference on your LD test for standard veteran Sister Superiors.

sourclams wrote:Actually it's generally a pretty bad thing, unless you've specifically built your army to incorporate tarpitting conscripts or something similar. Keeping your guys stuck in the assault means you're not going to be able to shoot that unit on the next turn, leaving them free to assault again on their turn. If one of my Guard squads gets hit, I want them to inflict a couple casualties and die so that I can blow them away when my shooting comes up.

frgsinwntr wrote:Sour clams has it. The unmodified thing can be good... but it is a mixed blessing

That's a poor argument, as stjohn70 has stated you could always choose to not use it. For 5 points there is pretty much no reason t o not take it.

wow, any friendly unit (with in 6") can test at the bearers unmodifide LD ?... i know a IG player whos going to love his 50 man meat shield testing at unmodified LD10 ... yes i think that this is broken but so what? it still works for now

The Chapter Approved Zealots have pretty much the same thing going for them; they count negative modifiers as positive, so they're nearly always leadership 10.

I can give testimony to how many times my multiple units of conscripts and slave-levied abhumans have won the day because one allied Canoness with this book sitting convieniently within 6" of a model in many units.

Never even gave her a pistol.