Cover saves from lootas that have a unit of grots in front of them

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**budro**

Totally flat table, no terrain. Unit of lootas with a unit of grots in front of them. The end of the deffguns are higher then the grots heads. If the lootas are shooting at something, does the targeted unit get a cover save?

the grots provide the lootas a cover save as they are half the height or more of the lootas, but since the guns are modeled higher then the grots heads (and this is just standard lootas, no special modeling), do they block/obscure LOS to the targeted unit?

**Axyl**

Your own models will never ever give cover to an opponents models. Doesn't matter what sort of units are in front. Your own models are only taken into account for LOS when targeting enemy units. LOS is taken from the point of view of the model, so as long as your units can see over the grots, then they can fire without any penalties.

Edit: I am wrong about this, please read below.

**SlaveToDorkness**

Axyl wrote:Your own models will never ever give cover to an opponents models. Doesn't matter what sort of units are in front. Your own models are only taken into account for LOS when targeting enemy units.

No. members of the same squad do not grant cover, all other obscuring models, however, DO. (Pg. 22 1st bullet).

The Lootas would get a cover save on a level table in pretty much any instance. The Grots would provide cover to the enemy if they were far enough away from the Lootas to actually obscure the enemy models. It is all based upon the distance from the Grots-Lootas and TLOS.

**Drudge Dreadnought**

Remember that you do NOT measure from the gun unless it is a vehicle, so the placement of the loota's gun makes no difference.

**Kaej**

Drudge Dreadnought wrote:Remember that you do NOT measure from the gun unless it is a vehicle, so the placement of the loota's gun makes no difference.

What about in the instance of flamer template weapons? Granted, this would bypass the whole coversave/no coversave issue here, but wouldn't that always be put against the tip of the flamer etc?

**winterman**

Read the rulebook!

When any part of the target model’s body (as defined on page 16) is obscured from the point of view of the firer, the target model is in cover. This is intentionally generous, and it represents the fact that the warrior, unlike the model, will be actively trying to take cover (as well as the smoke, explosions and flying debris that are mercifully absent from our tabletop battlefields).

Firers may of course shoot over intervening terrain if they are tall enough or high up on some terrain piece so that their line of sight is completely clear. As usual, check the firers’ line of sight by taking a good look from behind their heads, and ‘see what they see’.

If a target is partially hidden from the firer’s view by other models, it receives a 4+ cover save in the same way as if it was behind terrain.

So the weapon is not relevant, it is the location of the eyes relative to the target and the intervening model/terrain that matters. Lootas with grots right in front can easily shoot over yet get a cover save from shots coming their way.

**winterman**

What about in the instance of flamer template weapons? Granted, this would bypass the whole coversave/no coversave issue here, but wouldn't that always be put against the tip of the flamer etc?

Again, read the rulebook!

Instead of rolling to hit, simply place the template so that its narrow end is touching the base of the model firing it and the rest of the template covers as many models as possible in the target unit without touching any friendly models.

Granted, most people have not caught this rather wierd rule and play it how it makes sense.

**Axyl**

Nurgleboy77 wrote:
Axyl wrote:Your own models will never ever give cover to an opponents models. Doesn't matter what sort of units are in front. Your own models are only taken into account for LOS when targeting enemy units.

No. members of the same squad do not grant cover, all other obscuring models, however, DO. (Pg. 22 1st bullet).

The Lootas would get a cover save on a level table in pretty much any instance. The Grots would provide cover to the enemy if they were far enough away from the Lootas to actually obscure the enemy models. It is all based upon the distance from the Grots-Lootas and TLOS.

Oh hey, you are right. My bad. I always read that as friendly units and models do not grant cover.

**insaniak**

winterman wrote:
Instead of rolling to hit, simply place the template so that its narrow end is touching the base of the model firing it and the rest of the template covers as many models as possible in the target unit without touching any friendly models.

Granted, most people have not caught this rather wierd rule and play it how it makes sense.

Haven't 'caught' it?

It's worked that way since 2nd edition.

**Steelmage99**

Illustrated here.

**NaZ**

those pics make perfect sense.

its why grotz are soo weedy

NaZ

**winterman**

Haven't 'caught' it?

It's worked that way since 2nd edition.

Did I say it was a new rule? I've seen very few people play it that way since I started in 3ed...

**insaniak**

winterman wrote:Did I say it was a new rule?

It sounded like that was what you were saying, yes.

**coredump**

Keep in mind, if that gretchin moves forward an inch or two, the marine will now get a cover save.