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Hi all, I'm looking for some comments regarding a 1500 point Space Wolves army I'm thinking about building.

HQ: Wolf Guard Battle Leader with Frost Blade, Bolt Pistol, Frags, Wolf Pelt 85pts
HQ: Wolf Guard Battle Leader with Frost Blade, Bolt Pistol, Frags, Wolf Pelt 85pts

E: Dreadnought with Multimelta, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod 150 pts
E: Dreadnought with Multimelta, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod 150 pts
E: Dreadnought with Multimelta, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod 150 pts

T: Grey Hunters x9 with 1x Power Fist, 8x Boltguns, Rhino 226 pts
T: Grey Hunters x9 with 1x Power Fist, 8x Boltguns, Rhino 226 pts
T: Blood Claws x10 with 2x Power Fist, Rhino 214 pts
T: Blood Claws x10 with 2x Power Fist, Rhino 214 pts

I feel (like many do) that Marine armies live or die on the number of marines on field, so having only 40 marines makes me twitch, but it is supplemented by 10 total vehicles. I think I should have strong CC elements between the innate abilities of my squads as well as the high Str attacks the Dreads and Power Fists provide. Now, the SW list is light on ranged anti tank, so I thought I'd eschew the idea entirely, resorting to the three drop dreads for tank busting duties. I made sure they had flamers for the odd opponents that don't bring vehicles.

My concerns are: is my reasoning flawed? Will my CC troopers get spanked by other CC troopers? Will 40 marines be enough in the face of potentially 100+ orks? Will 3 dreads and a handful of power fists be sufficient for taking down enemy vehicles? Lastly, have I managed to hamstring myself entirely by attempting to cover two areas of gameplay that are in many ways entirely at odds with one another in terms of meta strategy? (I speak with regard to the attempt to provide answers for both tank and horde spam lists)

Did I screw the pooch or is this a fairly competitive list for the admittedly ancient SW list?

Bump For Great Justice!
and because I actually do want at least one reply. @.@

Just a quick comment.....

I think SW are the best in terms of lr spam. I would highly suggest 3 LR and squads to go in them.

ender502

First off you MUST take 1 and ONLY 1 wolf lord. Second id bump your grey hunters up to 10 per squad and bump your blood claws down to 9 per squad cuz they need the leaders more, or else they just run all over the place assulting the first thing that moves. Third id drop one of those dred and get a space wolf scout squad with a melta gun and melta bombs. and remember blood claws hit hard IF they charge and die quickly there after and you dont have to pay anything to give the grey slayers ccw and bolt pistols.

@Ender's reply: 3 Land Raiders in 1500 points seem a bit much to me. I might be able to run 2, but that would result in the loss of two drop dreads and a rhino at the very least. Still, a configuration well worth looking into, thank you for the idea!

@Bradmammajamma's reply: Actually, the Wolf Lord requirement is only in the 13th Co. SW list, not the standard SW list. In normal SW, you're limited to a single Lord, but can choose to not take him. Switching the WGBL's to run with the Claws would be cost-prohibitive (though only slightly, since the difference is only 4-7 points per squad). The point regarding them assaulting the first thing that moves is a little moot as they're mounted in rhinoes and carry PFists. As long as they're assaulting successfully, I claim that as a win, regardless of the victim. Dropping a dread means dropping two, to make the most of the drop pod rules. Aside from that, I think I prefer the drop of a dread (with multimelta and Str 10 power atks for later) on turn 1 to the OBEL of the scouts turn 2. Finally, Boltgun Hunters gives me a variable tactical option, for when I run against Genestealers. I'd prefer to have a chance to shoot a target with at least a portion of my army.

Keep it coming! I'm going to look at those Land Raiders...

check into a whirlwind they're a pain in the butt for marines but to any other race its a fist full of hurt. You could do what i do and run to rhinos up the feild side by side and run a vindicator behind them and when you jump out pre assult start layin down pie plates to thin out your enemy.

Wolf guard battle leaders can add a hell-of-a punch to a squad's firepower when equipped with assault cannons. It's much more expensive, but it's also very potent. I think your list is quite good. It's very difficult to build a list to counter an extreme, so don't worry so much.

@ Bradmammajamma: I do have a Vindi as is, and am looking at running 2+ of them @ 1500, replacing them with Raiders at 2k. However, that would involve cutting deep into either the number of bodies I have on table (and I'm already unhappy with only 40 marines) or into my drop strategy such that I'd only have a single dread dropping. Still, I could rework the list entirely into a pure mech instead of mech/drop list, but then I wouldn't be able to use the spiffy new plastic drop pod (of which I already own one).

Difficult decisions...

@ Iboshi: Equipping WGBL with Assault Cannons would result in them also being armed with Terminator Armor, exempting them from fitting in my rhinoes. Not a significant problem if I switch to Raiders, as I could select either 8 man squads or LRC's, but doing so would also increase their points cost significantly, especially if I were to retain the Frost Blades (as you noted). Also, I doubt as to the Assault Cannon's efficacy in fifth ed, as their ability to rend has been significantly reduced. In contrast, Cyclone Missile Systems seem a good purchase now that they are 2 shot weapons. They would also provide a fairly cheap long range AT weapon platform, at the cost of what is an admittedly powerful CC element. Consider that on the counter-attack each of those WGBL have 7(!) powered attacks at Str and Init 5. But thank you for the compliment on my list as it currently stands.

Still eyeballing those Land Raiders. Not sure I want to make my army at deployment 2 Rhinoes, 2 Raiders, and an attack bike. Seems like a lot of eggs in an awful few baskets.

Difficult, difficult decisions...

You can always go with rune priests and storm with a large squad of the younger wolves. Just run them up the middle with your cover save. And now that you can actually "run".... may be a more accessible list.

Also, I think the rhinos are probably just wasted points. They die so easily. At least mine always did.

SW are a wierd army.

ender502

Can I ask why are you running 3 dreadnoughts? Take away 1 (or 2) and replace it with something with more durability.

I'm taking 3 dreadnoughts for a few reasons. Armed with a Multi-Melta and DCCW, they've some fairly decent anti tank power in a relatively cheap frame. They're also cheap filling for Drop Pods, letting me cover multiple vectors of attack. Consider that the minimum points cost for any other unit that fits in a Pod is at least 102 points (cost of either Blood Claws or Grey Hunters at min size without upgrades) and a 105 point dread becomes an attractive proposition. I went ahead and gave them H Flamers for the odd occasion in which I face an enemy with no vehicles, but honestly, their anti tank potential is the primary reason I'm carrying them. As long as they get their job of tank busting done, I don't care too much if they die. But then, as they're podding in, they should be a little more durable than their statline alone would indicate. I'm more concerned with the durability of my Rhinoes, tbh.

Hmm... still mulling things over...