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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I think the basic way is something like: Patrol + Vanguard,

Overlord w/veil or voltaic staff
second character with whichever relic overlord doesn't have
20 warriors w/reapers
2x thralls
2x min flayed ones

+ whatever you actually want to play the game with.

All in all, fact is that Warhammer 40K has never been as balanced as it is now, and codex releases have never been as interesting as they are now (new units and vehicles and tons of new special rules/strategies each release -- not just the same old crap with a few changes in statlines and points costs).

-Therion
_______________________________________

New Codexia's Finest Hour - my fluff about the change between codexes, roughly novel length. 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




I think we might see a meta shift toward nihilak. It still provides obsec but even before nachmund people were starting to go for this option over the eternal expansionist because the added defense is nice enough and moving out into no man's land isn't great if you're going second anyway.
Now one of the missions prevents you from using your pregame move regardless and with the focus of a lot of the secondaries being done by large troops choice squads something that we -for the most part- don't want to take that many of, the nihilak strat to perform an action and still being able to shoot could become a big deal for taking some of the pressure off your list in the struggle to balance things that do your secondaries with overall killing power.
   
Made in gb
Furious Raptor




It depends if we are talking casual pick up game play where you have a 1 in 9 chance to get any mission or tournament play where you'll have a 0% chance to get the three worst designed missions. The 6/7/8/9 round tournaments usually prefer to repeat good missions rather than touch the bad ones.

Janky missions that may be on the tournament chopping block:
11 - Where you need a pregame move or can't get 1 CP.
13 - Odd angles that many hate measuring out. Used to be in most tournaments as there were worse options.
21 - Banning pre game moves and having such a back loaded tertiary objective. Which is a shame as I love the map.
22 - Losing CP if you have a warlord who does things might prove unpopular.

My guess is on 11, 21 and 22 being dropped and maybe we are finally free from 13 too as you only need 5 for most tournaments.

EDIT: Although this could just be a UK thing, looks like LVO is playing all 9 current missions.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/26 15:59:36


 
   
Made in gb
Deranged Necron Destroyer



UK, Midlands

Had a couple of games with the new points trying out 20 Novokh Flayed ones with the King.

-They are absolute blenders
-They can be pretty tough with -1 to hit, 5++, and an Orb of eternity
-They can do some shenanigans with reanimation and the fight twice strat- stringing out reanimated models to get in charge range of stuff, fighting twice for 4 lots of 3" pile in/consolidate.
-Because of these shenanigans opponents become hesitant to shoot at them.

I'll definitely be using them again, and they were so choppy that they might still work well in Eternal Expansionists.

Bonus lessons: Rail-Heads ain't that bad


My overall feeling on the points drops is that they don't do enough to boost existing Necron builds to a competitive level, and the only new builds they might promote is Flayed One spam, which probably won't be good enough.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/01/26 13:48:47


 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

My overall feeling on the points drops is that they don't do enough to boost existing Necron builds to a competitive level, and the only new builds they might promote is Flayed One spam, which probably won't be good enough.

Even in concert with other improvements of Necron units it will not suffice to play in the upper bracket in tourneys.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in dk
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






40kenthusiast wrote:
I think the basic way is something like: Patrol + Vanguard,

Overlord w/veil or voltaic staff
second character with whichever relic overlord doesn't have
20 warriors w/reapers
2x thralls
2x min flayed ones

+ whatever you actually want to play the game with.

What are you taking Thralls for?
EightFoldPath wrote:
It depends if we are talking casual pick up game play where you have a 1 in 9 chance to get any mission or tournament play where you'll have a 0% chance to get the three worst designed missions. The 6/7/8/9 round tournaments usually prefer to repeat good missions rather than touch the bad ones.

I was going to make the same point, checking the tournament pack is always important, it could be a 33% chance and then there is the added strategy in terms of whether it's the first, or final mission in the tournament and whether your personal goal is to go 3/2 or 5/0. Hopefully, we'll see a lot more top 4s with the buffs and nerfs that have gone around.
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Had a couple of games with the new points trying out 20 Novokh Flayed ones with the King.

I saw Nanavati doing it on one of the Art of War streams, might be something to learn for anyone who is interested in doing something similar, assuming you're not Nanavati
[quoteBonus lessons: Rail-Heads ain't that bad

Did you get hit by the 8 MW Strat? Did you have any good targets for the regular shot (non-C'tan monsters/vehicles without QS)?
   
Made in gb
Deranged Necron Destroyer



UK, Midlands

I did get hit by the 8 MW strat, it went into Flayed Ones. The re-ans let me conga line out and charge fire warriors on their home objective.

I was running the Silent king and a Monolith. I got the jump on the Hammerheads before they could get a solid shot off. TSK only loses a Menhir anyway.

   
Made in dk
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






I am guessing you DS the Monolith to avoid shooting?
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
I did get hit by the 8 MW strat, it went into Flayed Ones. The re-ans let me conga line out and charge fire warriors on their home objective.

The Stratagem is not an attack, so no Reanimation against the Stratagem.
   
Made in ch
Irked Necron Immortal




Switzerland

Siegler streamed his take here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjWDIGOgnqA

He puts the warriors very high on the list. I don't mind. (I got 60 ish)

He did not talk about the Lokhust Lord with 3 units of heavy destroyers.
   
Made in us
Nimble Ellyrian Reaver



Longmont, Co

Why would he have? Neither are very good, spamming heavy destroyers doesn’t make them more good. One or two could serve a purpose.

There is one guy running a single unit of three, he got called out by name. Not a metta pick.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
He actually didn’t talk about spamming anything, all the units he put in the staple categories he was talking about taking one or maybe more of. Even his top choice the warriors, he’s good with just one squad of 20.

I thought he would say skorpeks all day but same thing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/27 06:17:45


All of the things. Most of the time. 
   
Made in gb
Deranged Necron Destroyer



UK, Midlands

 vict0988 wrote:
I am guessing you DS the Monolith to avoid shooting?
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
I did get hit by the 8 MW strat, it went into Flayed Ones. The re-ans let me conga line out and charge fire warriors on their home objective.

The Stratagem is not an attack, so no Reanimation against the Stratagem.


Yeah Monolith dropped in and nuked a HHead.

I thought that might be the case with the submunition strat, but rather than look into it we decided that the big gun that shot my dudes was a shooting attack and carried on. It was the OOE reans that made the difference anyway.

   
Made in dk
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
I am guessing you DS the Monolith to avoid shooting?
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
I did get hit by the 8 MW strat, it went into Flayed Ones. The re-ans let me conga line out and charge fire warriors on their home objective.

The Stratagem is not an attack, so no Reanimation against the Stratagem.


Yeah Monolith dropped in and nuked a HHead.

I thought that might be the case with the submunition strat, but rather than look into it we decided that the big gun that shot my dudes was a shooting attack and carried on. It was the OOE reans that made the difference anyway.


Yeah, without a Reanimator they are only coming back on 5+ anyway, so less than 3 on average. The new mission set really rewards ObSec, if not for that I think Szarekhan would have a lot more going for it. Szarekhan Scarabs just don't care about mortal wounds one bit.
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






I am assuming we can take the Silent King in any dynasty due to the Dynastic Agent rule correct? The new rules will not force him to be in one dynasty.

   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





United Kingdom

In my 1.5k list (regular game size in my local group) the changes save me 45 points which is really nice... Free unit of scarabs

Craftworld Eldar
Space Wolves
Necrons
Gloomspite Gitz  
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high

Got an RTT coming up. Trying to decide between my recently buffed Necrons, and my as of yet untested Custodes with the new dex. Was thinking of this list since the core changes and points reductions really juiced it. Thoughts?

Spoiler:

Supreme Command
Silent King

HQ
Overlord, Voltaic Staff, Rez Orb, Implaccable Conqueror
Chronomancer Lance, Veil of Darkness
Technomancer with Cloak

Troops
3x5 Immortals with Gauss

Elites
x5 Flayed Ones
x6 Skorpehk Destroyers + Plasmacyte

Fast Attack
x6 Wraiths with Claws

Heavy Support
x3 Lokhust Heavy Destroyers with Gauss

Transport
Ghost Ark

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/28 18:29:21


Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts

MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. 
   
Made in dk
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






Overlord, Chronomancer and Ghost Ark don't have much of a job in your list, 6 Skorpekhs only stick around so long, if you put the Voltaic Staff on your Cloaktek and replaced the Overlord with Scarabs or replace Wraiths with more Skorpekhs I could see the Chronomancer being more worthwhile. I think GA->DDA is an easy upgrade for 15 pts since you don't have any Warriors, alternatively, you could go with Tomb Blades which to pair well with SK.

You also forgot to list your Dynasty, I assume Szarekhan so your Cloaktek can heal SK. I really don't like SK Szarekhan melee lists because the SK melee buff and the Szarekhan trait have anti-synergy. A Tomb Blade/Scarab Swarm list makes more sense to me for that combination, otherwise I'd just give up on healing the SK and park the Cloaktek with a 3-man unit of Heavy Destroyers and a Doomsday Ark so he can do double-duty healing both.

If your Cloaktek won't be healing the Heavy Destroyers they might be better off split into loners to make better use of the Szarekhan trait. I'm not sure how many things Flayed Ones can do without ObSec or being 6-strong.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/28 20:37:32


 
   
Made in us
Nimble Ellyrian Reaver



Longmont, Co

Would be silly to ignore good advice =$


Silent king

Lord-implacable conq, orb of E, warscythe
Chronomancer- vail, entropic lance
Technomancer- voltaic staff, cloak

Warriors x 20
Warriors x10
Immortals x5

Skorpekh x6

Praetorians x8
Wraiths x5

Ghost arc
Nightscythe.

Bonus points for owning all models.

Tried to get extra mileage out of hq’s.

Praetorians!

Hard to pass on custom

This is how I wanted to play crons when the book came out. Minus the silent king and with scytheguard but close enough.

Cheers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
5 immortals, 6 skorpekh and 8 praetorians all fit inside the nightscythe. That’s insane.

Could deepstrike it for 1 cp

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/29 06:34:07


All of the things. Most of the time. 
   
Made in ch
Irked Necron Immortal




Switzerland

Cauthon wrote:

Tried to get extra mileage out of hq’s.

Praetorians!
Exept most HQs cannot buff the Praetorians, Szeras and Orikan can
   
Made in us
Nimble Ellyrian Reaver



Longmont, Co

I didn’t mean they were to buff praetorians. The silent king takes care of that.

That was two separate bullet points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Correction. Praetorians can’t ride in the nightscythe or use the strat to port out of it.

I still like them with the silent king though.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
You could replace 8 praetorians for 7 lychguard. May be objectively better but I just like the praetorians as a strike squad. Feels good with the silent king.

Or the praetorians for a doom scythe and cortical subjugator scarabs.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/01/29 20:43:54


All of the things. Most of the time. 
   
Made in ch
Irked Necron Immortal




Switzerland

Ophidians look good in Novokh atm, as an alternative to Praetorians. But I'm not sure.
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high

Our dex sadly didn't do very well at LVO. But it was also done pre-CA points adjustments.

We'll need to use the fresh slate post CA to see how the field really shakes up.

I'm still sold on Novohk Skorpehks. They're legit.

Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts

MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. 
   
Made in ch
Irked Necron Immortal




Switzerland

 iGuy91 wrote:
Our dex sadly didn't do very well at LVO. But it was also done pre-CA points adjustments.

We'll need to use the fresh slate post CA to see how the field really shakes up.

I'm still sold on Novohk Skorpehks. They're legit.

just proves to me that the core keyword is not very relevant as long as HQ's are expensive.
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Overall win ratio of Necrons at LVO was 48%. Not very promising.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in ch
Irked Necron Immortal




Switzerland

 wuestenfux wrote:
Overall win ratio of Necrons at LVO was 48%. Not very promising.

sounds good to me. A good player can bring it over 50%
   
Made in dk
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






 wuestenfux wrote:
Overall win ratio of Necrons at LVO was 48%. Not very promising.

After getting 30 extra points and maybe replacing a unit or two with the ones that got discounted, seems fair. 48% isn't problematic.
   
Made in ch
Irked Necron Immortal




Switzerland

Remember that meta chaser "pro" players don't bring mediocre armies. So the army is a bit better then it shows.
   
Made in us
Irked Necron Immortal



Colorado

For Wraiths, min sized or max sized units?
   
Made in dk
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






v0iddrgn wrote:
For Wraiths, min sized or max sized units?

5 to avoid Blast or 6 to maximize the benefit of MWBD and Overcharger. I'd rather have 7 Scarabs, 6 Flayed Ones or 3 Skorpekhs than 3 Wraiths because Scarabs are tougher, Flayed Ones and Skorpekhs have more actions available to them and are cheaper.

You can find a top 4 with every number of Wraiths, 5 and 6 seems more popular though. I actually also think 3-man Ophydians have some play now, for when you just need to kill something small and don't want to devote more than 90 pts but still want it gone.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/01 06:10:26


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 wuestenfux wrote:
Overall win ratio of Necrons at LVO was 48%. Not very promising.


48% is pretty much right in the sweet spot of where an army should be. Why do you think it's problematic?

It's true there are armies out there with win rates above 60%, but the problem there lies with those armies rather than with the ones hovering around the 50% mark.
   
Made in ch
Irked Necron Immortal




Switzerland

maybe Eldar and Tau will be really good against Silent King
   
 
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