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and Fox News sat on this fact until after the election.

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/11/05/palin-africa-continent/

And Biden didn't know Pakistan missiles couldn't hit Europe. And Obama didn't know Russia and China sat on the Security council and could veto actions by the UN against Russia as he proposed with the Georgia invasion. And McCain didn't know how many houses he had. Whats your point? The market dropped 500 points after the election. You've got much bigger things to worry about.

Frankly I'm sick of the Palin bashing and I am sick of the posting on this board attacking the VP.

No matter what, she has a future with the voting block of the Republican party, so I doubt
this actually matters to people one way or the other.

Good point Frazz.

The blindly partisan will always immediately cling to anything derogatory about an opponent but willfully ignore anything bad about their own side.

It's one of the many negative things that has come about as a result of the Democrat and Republican parties managing to convince the American populus that there are only two candidates.

Reminds me of the Onion article of US aid for Andorra.

Orlanth wrote:Reminds me of the Onion article of US aid for Andorra.

THAT WAS PURE SLANDER! State Department officials know darn well where Andorra is. The list of countries where no one is trying to kill us are etched in every diplomat's brain.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Orlanth wrote:Reminds me of the Onion article of US aid for Andorra.

THAT WAS PURE SLANDER! State Department officials know darn well where Andorra is. The list of countries where no one is trying to kill us are etched in every diplomat's brain.

So are those the jobs you guys line up for? Or do you get hazard pay for going into,
say, T-i-b3t.

Yes, all of the candidates made gaffes and said things that indicated they knew less than they should.

These two particular details are on a completely different level, and I do think that makes them news.

The fact that Fox withheld these details while Fox News personnel simultaneously criticized other news organizations' judgements on whether to release particular stories is also news, though more about Fox than about Palin.

That said, JF has a real point that we should be looking forward rather than backward.

If the Republican party wakes up, they'll realize that to get back the White House and the Capital (where Congress sits, for those outside the US or inside the US and forgetting seventh grade), they need to get away from the right-wing evangelicals and move more to the center. That said, I don't think that means 'forget conservative roots', but I think it means 'distance yourself from the bible-thumpers.' Republicans need to get back to fiscal responsibility for the government, real homeland security (securing the borders, inspecting ships - not flag-waving support the troops motions), helping the middle class (and not just the top of the tax bracket - takes under Ike were like 70% at the top), and other 'moderate' issues. Healthcare costs should be in there, and retirement savings, but I don't think that means nationalizing either, but fixing problems in the current systems.

The average American Joe is pretty ignorant. Palin just reflects that average American Joe.

I expect more from my leaders, but obviously many, many Americans want to be led by such people. I guess we really do get the government we deserve sometimes.

Edit: spelling

It's said by a lot of people, "I want a president that I could sit down and have a beer with."

Really? really? Then write-in your drinking buddy who's been divorced three times.

Frazzled wrote:And Biden didn't know Pakistan missiles couldn't hit Europe. And Obama didn't know Russia and China sat on the Security council and could veto actions by the UN against Russia as he proposed with the Georgia invasion. And McCain didn't know how many houses he had. Whats your point? The market dropped 500 points after the election. You've got much bigger things to worry about.

Biden not knowing about the missiles isn't great, but is a fairly academic. McCain not knowing how many houses he owned was a political point, no-one really cared about the houses. It was more about pointing out the guy trying to run as just like the average joe was not, in fact, much like the average joe at all.

Obama not knowing about Russia and China being on the security council and their veto power, that’s a pretty severe level of ignorance, easily as worrying as McCain’s ignorance. If it’s true I’m really surprised it hasn’t come up before… in fact I’m shocked McCain wasn’t running ads on it day and night. Do you have a cite, because I’m not sure I can believe it without one.

I know he called for a security council resolution against Russia, but that doesn’t indicate an ignorance of veto. It’s pretty common practice to pass the resolution and force a veto from the censured nation, to point out just what everyone else thinks of them. This happened to the USSR a lot back in the day, and sometimes to the US as well. Did he say anything more specific?

Frankly I'm sick of the Palin bashing and I am sick of the posting on this board attacking the VP.

I'll make you a deal, you get the Republican party to pick a VP candidate that is informed on the simplest points of US politics, and I'll get the internet to be nice to them.

Well considering 3 out of 5 Americans (maybe 4 out of 5) couldn't tell you the same things that leaves out a lot of people. Heck, I doubt 3 out of 5 could even point to France, Germany and England on a map for petes sake.

Archaeo wrote:Well considering 3 out of 5 Americans (maybe 4 out of 5) couldn't tell you the same things that leaves out a lot of people. Heck, I doubt 3 out of 5 could even point to France, Germany and England on a map for petes sake.

Do you have any sort of reference for that data or did you just make those numbers up?

I have serious trouble believing a senator on the Foreign Relations Committee didn't know about Russia and China being on the Security Council.

The only thing people need to about Palin is that she is a MILF and I would hit it two times.

Grignard wrote:

Archaeo wrote:Well considering 3 out of 5 Americans (maybe 4 out of 5) couldn't tell you the same things that leaves out a lot of people. Heck, I doubt 3 out of 5 could even point to France, Germany and England on a map for petes sake.

Do you have any sort of reference for that data or did you just make those numbers up?

It sounds made up but it's illustrative. There is widespread ignorance of foreign affairs among the US population -- it comes up every few years in surveys. To be fair there is a similar level of ignorance among the UK population and for all I know among the Swiss and the Turkish.

Archaeo wrote:Well considering 3 out of 5 Americans (maybe 4 out of 5) couldn't tell you the same things that leaves out a lot of people. Heck, I doubt 3 out of 5 could even point to France, Germany and England on a map for petes sake.

QFT.

When i was still living in the US (New Mexico to be exact) you encouter some pretty serious strangeness. For example, people that don´t even know, that Albuquerque is NOT New mexicos capital, that you have to FLY to germany because there is no bridge and that paris is not the capital of europe.

I thought that was pretty severe, but then again, if you look really really close at any country, you are bound to find people like that. The education here in germany is at a point, where it is leaving a lot to be desired as well.

Archaeo wrote:Well considering 3 out of 5 Americans (maybe 4 out of 5) couldn't tell you the same things that leaves out a lot of people. Heck, I doubt 3 out of 5 could even point to France, Germany and England on a map for petes sake.

And from the Australian TV show 'The Chaser' we bring you...




Remember this one is in New York...

Flachzange wrote:
I thought that was pretty severe, but then again, if you look really really close at any country, you are bound to find people like that. The education here in germany is at a point, where it is leaving a lot to be desired as well.

Too true. Though I'm not certain that education has gotten worse, so much as mass media has made the disparity between the well-educated and the uneducated more obvious through exposure. Remember, we recall history through the stories of exceptional people, not the average joe. When your picture of the past is dominated by those who excelled, it seems to follow that you would perceive it a bit more romantically than everyday reality.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:

Archaeo wrote:Well considering 3 out of 5 Americans (maybe 4 out of 5) couldn't tell you the same things that leaves out a lot of people. Heck, I doubt 3 out of 5 could even point to France, Germany and England on a map for petes sake.

And from the Australian TV show 'The Chaser' we bring you...




Remember this one is in New York...

True, but John Safran gave a pretty decent counter to all that (warning, he says a rude word at one point in there);

The problem isn't what people did or did not know - the problem is what are they doing about it.

Sarah Palin at no point inspired me with confidence that if elected the first thing she would do is sit down with an atlas, some history texts and a knowledgable state department briefer and learn all this stuff.

No one should seriously expect politicians to know every nuance of every situation across the globe, but it shouldn't be too much of a stretch to expect them to prepare for office by finding out the basics - particularly if its school stuff like knowing the difference between continents and countries.

Surely politicians aught to know by now that ignorance on this scale will be picked up by the media and flung in their faces pretty mercilessly by their opponents. So why don't they do something about it?

I read in the paper that John McCain's team were astonished at Palin's ignorance of these kind of issues. Which brings up the questions;

Why did they pick her?

Having picked her, why didn't they give her some useful briefing material?

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Orlanth wrote:Reminds me of the Onion article of US aid for Andorra.

THAT WAS PURE SLANDER! State Department officials know darn well where Andorra is. The list of countries where no one is trying to kill us are etched in every diplomat's brain.

Actually if the newspaper statement was intentionally false then it would be LIBEL not SLANDER. Affirmative defense to slander or libel is the truth.

I think both candidates made bad choices for VP. Joe Biden is a crusty old curmudgeon, who is a democratic and less-hawkish version of Cheney.

Sorry, I should have put 'probably' 3 in 5 American.... in there. Its several years old and for the life of me I can't remember where its from but at one time I believe the average education level in the US was something like 8th grade. What its done lately I do not know.

There was even a guy trying to answer a question on the radio this morning and he made the statement 'Arizona IS in the United States isn't it?'. Not going to tell what state he was from though.

And as for wondering if education has gotten worse or not. Education in itself isn't worse, getting students to actually learn anything these days is the problem. My wife is a teacher and she has no end of headaches trying to get her students to do what they are supposed to do. And in most cases the parents do not help that much.

In regards to McCains people and Palin, from what I have been hearing it sounds like they hung her out to dry. A lot of bickering and backstabbing going on now that the election is over. Of course the Democrats seem to be do some shuffling themselves.

5 out of 4 Americans are also terrible at the maths.

Chimera_Calvin has a great point. Ignorance itself isn't necessarily a bad thing. we can' tbe expected to know everything.

Overcoming that ignorance and being willing to learn and adapt your existing opinions based on facts is important and one of the characteristics of not only a leader, but an inspiring individual.

I'm always surprised at people who say that they want an "everyman" president.

Ideally, I want a president who cares about all Americans, and is incredibly intelligent, an inspiring leader, and knows how to pick high-quality advisors. A president who has America's best interests at heart and will work well with other countries while making sure that we come out ahead on all deals. A president who can be brutal when necessary (none of this "bombing Serbia" crap) but doesn't just toss our soldiers somewhere for no reason (Iraq). A president who enforces the ideals of personal responsibility, who gives the needy a hand-up but doesn't coddle them, who understands that only through hard work and sacrifice can we improve ourselves and maintain our high standard of living.

In short, an elite bastard.

Iorek wrote:I'm always surprised at people who say that they want an "everyman" president.

Ideally, I want a president who cares about all Americans, and is incredibly intelligent, an inspiring leader, and knows how to pick high-quality advisors. A president who has America's best interests at heart and will work well with other countries while making sure that we come out ahead on all deals. ...

.

You see, that's why there is so much resentment against the USA in the rest of the world.

A proper deal should be of equal value to both sides.