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Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

I ask you, is more wrong to Taser this guy, or let him keep talking and not Taser this guy.

On the day the stock market drops 5% (again)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7724325.stm

Paulson says US bail-out working


Henry Paulson outlined three 'critical priorities' for the rescue plan

The $700bn (£494bn) US bail-out package has already "clearly helped stabilise" the financial system, US Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson has said.

But he added that there were still many challenges ahead and market turbulence was likely to continue for some time.

Mr Paulson said authorities had abandoned plans to use some of the $700bn to buy up banks' bad debts.

He also appeared to rule out giving any of the funds to US carmakers, saying the bail-out was for financial firms.

Falling stocks

Instead of buying up the banks' toxic debts, as first proposed by the rescue deal, the bail-out fund will continue to be used to buy shares in the lenders to help boost their balance sheets.


The US is embracing a form of state control and intervention that looks remarkably Chinese
Robert Peston, BBC Business Editor


However, Mr Paulson added that the Treasury Department and the Federal Reserve would continue to monitor whether bad-debt purchases could "play a useful role" in the future.

Mr Paulson's comments did little to ease continuing investor jitters, and Wall Street's main Dow Jones index was down 3.2% by afternoon trading in New York.

However, many analysts said he was right to backtrack on the plan to buy up the bad debts, saying it was difficult to see it being workable, and that simply buying up more banking stock was more straightforward.

"The best bet is just to give them [the banks] the capital and to let them absorb the losses anyway," said Rudy Narvas, senior analyst at 4Cast.

"That is exactly what it looks like is happening."

Carmakers

Mr Paulson's comments regarding America's three main carmakers - General Motors, Ford and Chrysler - are likely to disappoint House of Representatives Speaker and leading Democrat Nancy Pelosi.


BAIL-OUT PROGRESS
3 October - $700bn rescue bill passes through Congress
14 October - Plans announced to buy $250bn in banking stock
26 October - First $115bn spent buying shares in eight lenders
10 November - $40bn to buy stake in insurer AIG

On Tuesday night she called for the government to spend some of the $700bn on the three firms, who are all now struggling against big losses and falling sales.

"In order to prevent the failure of one or more of the major American automobile manufacturers, Congress and the Bush administration must take immediate action," said Ms Pelosi.

There is, however, a great deal of opposition to a bail-out for the car industry.

"Once we cross the divide from financial institutions to individual corporations, truly, where would you draw the line?" said Jeff Sessions, Republican Senator for Alabama.

Massive losses

The call for help comes after General Motors (GM) announced a third-quarter operating loss of $4.2bn last week. The carmaker said it would run out of cash early in 2009 if market conditions did not improve.

GM also announced it would be forced to lay off 3,600 workers, and has since announced a further 1,900 job cuts.

Last week, Ford also reported a $2.98bn loss for the third quarter and said it would have to cut salary-related expenses in North America by 10%.

Sales at the two car giants have been hit hard as consumers tighten their belts for the impending recession. Sales at GM fell by 45% in October compared with the same month last year, while sales at Ford fell 30%.

Chrysler was also hit hard, with sales falling 35%.

At the start of October, President George W Bush signed legislation that gives GM and fellow US carmakers Chrysler and Ford access to $25bn of cheap government-backed loans to help them develop less-polluting cars.



What do you think about the US Treasury Secretary's comments that the 'bail-out' money will not be used to buy up banks' bad debts.? Send us your comments using the form below:


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

I really am beginning to think we are all screwed.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine





The world has been through worse. we'll survive

And whilst you're pointing and shouting at the boogeyman in the corner, you're missing the burglar coming in through the window.

Well, Duh! Because they had a giant Mining ship. If you had a giant mining ship you would drill holes in everything too, before you'd destory it with a black hole 
   
Made in ca
Long-Range Ultramarine Land Speeder Pilot






This is good. Prices for goods and minimum wage has been increasing steadly since the last great depretion as has our money's inflation (since it is not based on a real resource instead just a figment of the imagination). Once all these buisness crash and jobs are slashed and so on the whole economy should drop and inflation disappear/get reset to a manageable number again without us having to cut a zero off all our prices (or nine zero in the case of that one african monetary group that happened last year). Plus people might smarten up and go back to the Gold standard or some other monetary system that is based on some other resource or we will just be tossed back into the stone age and resort to trading only.

DQ:80+S+++G+MB++I+Pw40k96#++D++A++/sWD-R++++T(T)DM+

Note: D+ can take over 12 hours of driving in Canada. It's no small task here.

GENERATION 5: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment.
 
   
Made in au
[DCM]
.. .-.. .-.. ..- -- .. -. .- - ..






Toowoomba, Australia

GM and Ford.

How 2 companies can be losing a billion a month (each) and remain in business is beyond me.

It was discussed on the news here yesterday and said that if GM alone goes down then 2.5 million workers throughout the car industry will lose their jobs.
THAT would be a calamity that no politician would want and the govt would have to bail them out.

The main problem is that some idiot in the 90's negotiated ridiculous post termination of employment benefits with unions.

They have 3 options.

Continue as they have for the last 2-3 years, whine alot but do nothing and go down.
Declare bankruptcy, sack everyone, give out no benefits, and rehire immediately on a new agreement. All previous emnloyees lose their benefits. (after seeing the numbskulls who run unions this is probably the easiest of the 2 survival options)
Get the unions to change the agreement to one more like toyota's.

2025: Games Played:8/Models Bought:162/Sold:169/Painted:127
2024: Games Played:6/Models Bought:393/Sold:519/Painted: 207
2023: Games Played:0/Models Bought:287/Sold:0/Painted: 203
2020-2022: Games Played:42/Models Bought:1271/Sold:631/Painted:442
2016-19: Games Played:369/Models Bought:772/Sold:378/ Painted:268
2012-15: Games Played:412/Models Bought: 1163/Sold:730/Painted:436 
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

Dude, monetary policy cannot be based on a resource. You can only subdivide any given physical quantity so much. What happens when the overall worth of a given currency system out-paces the amount of gold/silver/iron/whatever which is actually available?

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine





Unions like (some) lobbiest provide a vital role in the world, anti child, discrimitory, and pro safty rules, making sure steel and mine workers come home to thier families everyday.

That said, everybody is going to have to cut back, I still stand by my claim that the Auto companies are in the hole over corporate greed and shoddy product, rather than any fault of unions.


All previous emnloyees lose their benefits. (after seeing the numbskulls who run unions this is probably the easiest of the 2 survival options)

Thats a sure way to earn yourself a strike, millions tring to defend yourself in lawsuits, a blasting from the B.B.B.
The ill will of most the country, and maybe even hauled before a heavly Democratic congress, (The last place you wanna be if you fired your work force because they were in unions.)


And whilst you're pointing and shouting at the boogeyman in the corner, you're missing the burglar coming in through the window.

Well, Duh! Because they had a giant Mining ship. If you had a giant mining ship you would drill holes in everything too, before you'd destory it with a black hole 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins






Scranton

dogma wrote:Dude, monetary policy cannot be based on a resource. You can only subdivide any given physical quantity so much. What happens when the overall worth of a given currency system out-paces the amount of gold/silver/iron/whatever which is actually available?


US dollar is not backed by anything


 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





Strimen wrote:This is good. Prices for goods and minimum wage has been increasing steadly since the last great depretion as has our money's inflation (since it is not based on a real resource instead just a figment of the imagination). Once all these buisness crash and jobs are slashed and so on the whole economy should drop and inflation disappear/get reset to a manageable number again without us having to cut a zero off all our prices (or nine zero in the case of that one african monetary group that happened last year). Plus people might smarten up and go back to the Gold standard or some other monetary system that is based on some other resource or we will just be tossed back into the stone age and resort to trading only.


This has nothing to do with fiat currency. Nothing. This also has nothing to do with inflation. Nothing.

The problems in the finance sector have an origin in housing prices, greatly exacerbated by the extreme leveraging undertaken by various financial bodies.

The gold standard is not relevant, and is no way related to any part of the solution to this problem. The thing you have to understand is that gold, apart from some fairly minor uses in industry and in jewellery, only has its value as a trade commodity. That is, gold is valuable because other people will pay for it because gold is valuable. This is no different to fiat currency.

frgsinwntr wrote:US dollar is not backed by anything


No country’s dollar is, because the gold standard or any other standard is an irrelevant relic of mercantilism. The sooner Ron Paul and his on-line fans read an economics textbook, the happier and smarter the internet will be.

“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine




Murfreesboro, TN

Why is gold valuable? Because ostensibly, it is rare and difficult to acquire... only it's not. In older times, with cruder tech, gold was rare, but not anymore. The same thing with diamonds; diamonds are composed of the most common of elements, and the technology exists to manufacture them, even if you look beyond the fact that historically the only reason diamonds were rare/valued was that they had to travel far to get to those who wanted them.

If you want an actual rare metal on which to base a currency, try something like palladium.

As a rule of thumb, the designers do not hide "easter eggs" in the rules. If clever reading is required to unlock some sort of hidden option, then it is most likely the result of wishful thinking.

But there's no sense crying over every mistake;
You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

Member of the "No Retreat for Calgar" Club 
   
Made in au
Anti-Armour Swiss Guard






Newcastle, OZ

And diamonds have decreased in value as we've learned how to synthesise them better. They're still the hardest natural substance, but there are now synthetic compunds that are harder (certain specifically designed industrial ceramics).

Those funky UV LEDs use a small chunk of synthetic diamond in their construction, for example.


I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.

That is not dead which can eternal lie ...

... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





lord_sutekh wrote:Why is gold valuable? Because ostensibly, it is rare and difficult to acquire... only it's not. In older times, with cruder tech, gold was rare, but not anymore. The same thing with diamonds; diamonds are composed of the most common of elements, and the technology exists to manufacture them, even if you look beyond the fact that historically the only reason diamonds were rare/valued was that they had to travel far to get to those who wanted them.

If you want an actual rare metal on which to base a currency, try something like palladium.


Except, again, there is no point in 'basing' a currency on anything. When it was attempted the currency moved independantly of the underlying precious metal anyway, because people didn't want and didn't care about the metal, they cared about being able to use the money to buy bread.

“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine




Murfreesboro, TN

I know, and agree; it just amuses me that people still go on and on about the gold standard and some arbitrary value that it brought to the currency system. Money has never been worth anything but what society says it was worth, even when it was ostensibly backed by bullion.

As a rule of thumb, the designers do not hide "easter eggs" in the rules. If clever reading is required to unlock some sort of hidden option, then it is most likely the result of wishful thinking.

But there's no sense crying over every mistake;
You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

Member of the "No Retreat for Calgar" Club 
   
Made in us
Wicked Warp Spider





Knoxville, TN

lord_sutekh wrote:Why is gold valuable? Because ostensibly, it is rare and difficult to acquire... only it's not. In older times, with cruder tech, gold was rare, but not anymore. The same thing with diamonds; diamonds are composed of the most common of elements, and the technology exists to manufacture them, even if you look beyond the fact that historically the only reason diamonds were rare/valued was that they had to travel far to get to those who wanted them.

If you want an actual rare metal on which to base a currency, try something like palladium.


The modern technology that allows us to obtain gold from areas previously thought to be mined out is expensive, and only worthwhile because of the relatively large amount of gold that can be mined, which is so simply because of volume. It is not only expensive, but it is dirty, dangerous, and it is one of the least environmentally sound industrial processes in existence. Those last aspects are really just another way of saying expensive. Not really apropos to the discussion, but thought I would point it out.
   
 
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