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After my first loss (being tabled in round #6) with my Plague Marines (which where of a layout pretty similar to one Stelek proposed here: http://yesthetruthhurts.blogspot.com/2008/08/death-guard.html) caused by a Grey Knight Terminators list, I went to build this one. Grey Knight Terminators were what got me into this game in the first place... now, 4 years later I actually got them. Yay!

1000 pts
HQ
Brother Captain (61) + 7 GK Terminators (46) as Retinue: 383

Elite
Brother Captain (61) + 7 GK Terminators (46): 383

Troops
8 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers, 2 Meltaguns: 100
8 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers, 2 Meltaguns: 100

966pts, 34pts left


1250 pts

HQ
Brother Captain (61) + 9 GK Terminators (46) as Retinue: 475

Elite
Brother Captain (61) + 9 GK Terminators (46): 475

Troops
8 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers, 2 Meltaguns: 100
8 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers, 2 Meltaguns: 100
8 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers, 2 Meltaguns: 100


1500, 1750, 2000
add Land Raider for every 250 pts above


The GK Terminators deal with normal troops and MC (though 31 ST6 power-weapon attacks are a bit of an overkill even for a god fex). The storm troopers deal with vehicles, though from 1500 they need to be placed in the LRs for additional safety. The LR themselves are very, very annoying.

So this should be playable.

Plus, I get to change the poses of 15 GK Terminators my new jeweler's saw, and I may rebuild some Kasrkin and stromtroopers to get 24 different models -- which makes me really happy modelling-wise. And the list consists only of models I really love.

What do you think? Needs more anti-tank? Needs more overall shootiness? More flexibility (like 4x5 Terminators and 4x6 stormtroopers)? It will work pretty well in the meta-game of my gaming-group (which is influenced by fear of groups of 8 to 10 plague marines ;-)), but what of other setups?

Kind regards,
Tierlieb

Playing DH is certainly challenging. I'd give the Storm Troopers transports so that they can deal with tanks. Transports are more reliable in the 5th ed.

Danke vielmals, mein umlautloser Freund!

Good one, the storm troopers feel a little fragile (which is why I boosted their number to 10). At 2000 pts, the LRs might do the transport job, but it seems to be a good idea to get some apc in earlier. Especially for killing enemy LRs, since they are a) popular b) one big threat to my main force - the last remaining las cannons in 5th edition, I guess.

Since rhinos cost 50pts for DH (20 more than I am used to) and I already have a ton of them, would it be worth the additional cost to get one or two chimeras? The higher front armour seems to be a good idea when frontally assaulting a tank, and two fire points instead of one seem to fit the meltas perfectly... yet the price tag is steep.

Yet I cannot help but wish for razorbacks ;-). Maybe I should wait for the IG codex and hope that the forces of the inquisition will be included...

Edit: Note about fire points. Some incoherent ramblings, too.

I think generally it's a good idea to add a rhino to your stormtroopers.
It makes them a bit more dangerous (having the ability to pop out from a distance) and will probably keep them alive to do their job.
I think your weakness lies in troops, without the Land Raider and little infantry support they could die. Also their a.t. role (meltagun) means they aren't suited to capturing objectives of your own, more a of seeking out tanks.
Also maybe you should consider a GM over a BC. He'll provide protection against IC's with his mega force weapon and still pack a good number of attacks while retaining enough wounds within the unit. And provide a pyschic power like Holocaust (horde) and Hammerhand (walker/vehicle)

For the first list, since you have the spare points, I would add a couple psycannons to the Termie squads. A little extra firepower never hurts. Never hurts you anyway...

@Mattlov
I was going to say "I am not a big believer in psycannons", but I figured you might have a point I did not see. So I took a look at
Pure grey knights tactica (which I like very much), I saw the wisdom in your words: Normal power-armoured GK lose their Nemesis weapon (and therefor their +2 str, not a good idea), but terminators don't. So, of course, the psycannon is a very, very good choice. I think I'll have to re-design my core troops one more. Maybe drop another terminator and go for the psycannons.

@Storm knight
The Grand Master, hmmm? He won't be killed by a single PF like Typhus does in my PM army. He gives me 4 str6 attacks at I5, which is a very big benefit against DPs and the like... sounds good. Yet he is pretty expensive, I already have a pretty low model count and when wearing the opponent down by shooting, I5 is not that important. I am not so sure about this choice.
About holocaust (which is called "inferno" in the German version, talk about political correctness here): I think I have a different idea how to deal with hordes, have a look at my chimera list below ;-)
Hammerhand does not seem very impressive, though, since it is only a +2 to str, not a +4 like for normal space marines. And since I already got tons of str6 attacks (and usually attacking against rear armor 10 - and both is equally useless against a LR or that Necron monstrosity), upgrading 3 or 4 of them to str8 does not seem worth it. And against infantry, I'd lose my force weapon bonus. Since 5th edition, I believe in specialized weapons against vehicles, meaning: I want 2d6 for armour penetration. Before Mattlov got me on the psycannon trip and you got me on the GM trip, I was thinking about using the brother captain and giving him an eviscerator or a chain fist. 3 attacks with 8+2d6 sound like LR killing material. Would be a waste with I5, though.

On the issue of transports, as mentioned by Wüstenfuchs and elaborated by Storm Knight: The storm troopers have a dual role, which is a bit of a problem. If I just wanted to capture objectives, I would take a lot of them and put them in rhinos. If I wanted them to go hunt tanks, I'd put them in chimeras (two fire points, fits perfectly). I can even equip the chimeras to kill hordes with two flamers. I think I'll go with the completely delusional idea of "if I table my opponent, I don't have to claim objectives". Or I could use one dedicated capturing troop with a rhino and two hunting troops in chimeras, of which one might double as capturing troop later in the game. Hmmm... damn, all these possibilities.^^

I'll have to re-think this once more. But since I agree on the transporter issue, here is a list I made when I wasn't into psycannons and not thinking about the GM as viable choice:

==HQ==
Brother Captain (61) + 7 GK Terminators (46) as Retinue: 383
+ Word of the Emperor: 10 (getting rid of the last 10 points)

==Elite==
Brother Captain (61) + 7 GK Terminators (46): 383

==Troops==
5 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers, 2 Meltaguns: 70
+ Chimera w. Smoke & Heavy Flamer x2: 88
5 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers, 2 Meltaguns: 70
+ Chimera w. Smoke & Heavy Flamer x2: 88
5 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers, 2 Meltaguns: 70
+ Chimera w. Smoke & Heavy Flamer x2: 88
=1250

The Chimera is chosen because I already have lots of rhinos in my other army and wanted another model. And then I though "if I have to buy a weapon for it, I'll go all the way" and bought an additional flamer. Hey, it was a 50% bargain opposed to the first one!
I'll have to try another list to incorporate the good advice discussed in here, though.

So, thanks for all the good advice.
And please keep it coming, this proves to be very, very helpful.

Sometimes it can come to play testing too, whatever you find best, you should use it.
However Hammerhand is only used because of it's effectiveness against walkers. A walker can only be hit on it's front armor which is generally 12 or even 13! In this case anything strength 6 is gonna struggle, so to compensate, take a iniative 5 strength 8 attacks from a GM which will most likely hit first and potentially save some GKT crushings....
Generally though, only useful under a close combat environment.

Now I do like Chimeras, they honestly are too expensive, it's hard to make full use of it's firepower and transport ability because of it's move 6" fire one weapon, move 12" fire no weapons.

Back to GM, I use him as a guide, he only protects my unit from IC's, Walkers and can place wounds on him too, he also can't be sniped meaning you won't lose your uber guy until the very end.

He's how I would build stormtroopers, if it helps.
Stormtroopers 5 (2meltagun)
Rhino, smokes, EA
128pts

Stormtroopers 9 (2plasmagun preferably or 2 meltagun)
Now it's upto you wether you want a Chimera, but it should really sit on a objective using it's firepower and protection it provides within. Generally a Rhino is better efficiency/price for transport and chimera for firepower.
Now the reason why I'm not keen on a chimera, is that a) I can buy another IST squad instead, and b) I can replace their firepower with a INQ + (shooty retinue: gun servitors)

Hm Word of the emperor, generally most units that will dare charge a 8man GKT unit would be fearless, as most assault specialist units are.