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Basically, I am unsure whether or not killing a unit champion in a challenge would give a roll on the eye of the gods (eotg) table.

EOTG says "whenever you kill an enemy character in a challenge"

Rulebook says: "unit champions are not characters, but follow these rules for characters..."

Id say RAW, you dont get the roll, but that doesnt seem right, the chaos lord shouting a challenge, the mightiest opponent stepping up, getting slaughtered, then no roll.

I dunno.

How do you play?

I roll if i kill a champion. If it can challenge it counts, thats the way i see it. We'll have to wait for the FAQ.

Since they "are not characters" you did not "kill a character". RAW I'd say no roll. Basically what the rules are saying is that the unit champ acts like a character accept he can't leave his unit. He is however not a character and therefor the eye of the gods rule doesn't come into affect because you did not kill a character, you killed a unit champion.

Eye of the Gods is a specific Special Rule, applying to models with said rule, namely, Eye of the Gods.

As most units do not have this rule, ergo nor do their champions. Thus the point becomes moot.

Mad Doc, I think you may have misread the question. The question is whether models with EOTG get to roll after killing a unit champion, not whether Chaos unit champs benefit from EOTG.

It's a tough question. EOTG says "characters", not unit champs. However, the rules for champs say they may issue and accept challenges and so follow those rules, which only refer to characters, and not champs. Since they act as a character for the purposes of challenge rules, one could argue that they count for EOTG. I would discuss it before the game and dice off if no agreement can be reached.

Oh, right. In that case, no, no they don't.

Unit Champions may make and accept Challenges, but are NOT characters. Says as much in the rulebook, either under the champion rules or the challenge ones, can't remember which.

not that this really matters but they were treating them as characters in a recent white dwarf battle report.
they made EOTG rolls after killing unit champions a couple of times.

In that case then, I get to count them as Character for Shaga's Screamin' Sword. That ought to be a laugh!

But seriously, they never count as characters beyond Issuing and Accepting Challenges.

White Dwarf, as ever, is written and signed off 3 months in advance. It is entirely possible that the battle report was played out a month earlier than that. Ergo, it;s not a massive stretch to say that Eye of The Gods changed to characters only in the mean time. Or indeed, that the WD boys cocked up. Again.

________________________________________
From: John Spencer [mailto:John.Spencer@Games-Workshop.com] On Behalf Of askyourquestion
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 4:54 PM
To:
Subject: RE: eye of the gods

Hello,
Answers to your questions are below.

Thanks!

John Spencer
Customer Service Specialist


________________________________________
From:
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 4:00 PM
To: askyourquestion
Subject: eye of the gods

Do unit champions count as characters for chaos eye of the gods?
If I kill a champion in a challenge do I get a roll?
No. You only get a roll if you kill a character in a challenge, not a champion.

Usernames, just because a hobby specialist tells you something doesnt mean they are correct. In some cases, people on this forum may have been playing loger than some of them, and have a better understanding of the rules.

eg. I emailed them ages ago, asking if a DP with the MOT (40k) could use 2 shooty powers per turn, as they were a MC. the troll explicity said no, they only get to use one power, as per the MOT. This was then later found to be plain wrong when the FAQ came out.

I think Im going to go with RAW on this one, and say they dont, even though that sucks a bit, but I feel its most fair.

I really think that its RAI that unit champs give the roll, as in some armies, heroes are few and far between.

Seems to me that it would, as otherwise people would just tie up your super cool character [whom they know HAS to issue a challenge] with their crappy unit champion, so their good characters can butcher your troops.

More importantly, do chaos unit champions HAVE to issue and accept challenges like the true characters? They get no benefit from the table even if they do kill an enemy character in a challenge.

Yes, it says All models that can issue a challenge must. Even though only your characters and some units get the benefit of EotG table. Thats why I play a warshrine!

Spellbound wrote:Seems to me that it would, as otherwise people would just tie up your super cool character [whom they know HAS to issue a challenge] with their crappy unit champion, so their good characters can butcher your troops.

More importantly, do chaos unit champions HAVE to issue and accept challenges like the true characters? They get no benefit from the table even if they do kill an enemy character in a challenge.

Except Champions are NOT Characters. The only difference between them and rank file is they always get to attack, provided the regiment has not been wiped out and they were not allocated specific attacks, and they may issue and accept challenges.

If the rules say you have to challenge, then you have to challenge.

Well, Eye of the Gods says they must challenge, but that special rule is not to be found on units AFAIK. It is in every character listing (including chaos sorcerers).

MDG pointed this out earlier.

According to this as well, your unit champion would have to kill an enemy hero/lord, and not just an opposing champion. which sucks.

And with only 1 challenge/combat, Im not going to be getting unit champs for units that i put characters in anymore, that 20pt extra attack on my chaos knights will be better spent on a warbanner...which is essentially an extra attack that auto hits, wounds and kills...

At my local gaming store we've been playing like this:

If any of my characters kills a unit champion in a challenge then they get a roll on the table.

My unit champions DO NOT have to issue a challenge because they are not characters and the Warshrine special rule pretty much clears this question up anyways.

This could be analyzed several ways but this is how were playing it until FAQ.

My two coppers.


I'm not sayin.....I'm just sayin.....

Yeah, it's kind of weird how the challenge bit is listed under "Eye of the Gods", a rule which unit champions do not have, but then says all characters.

EotG only giving a roll when killing enemy heroes and lords sucks too. Poor sorceror with no cool armor or weapons having to kill someone else's bad*ss guy to get any benefit.... *sigh*.

But around here we include unit champions, so hooray!