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I posted these questions in the other 'Ard boyz final thread. They went unanswered. I am not done talking about it, nor do I consider the locking of that thread to be the right call.

If we are going to have a high level tournament scene (and there are serious arguments that we don't have such a thing, but people who post those arguments get banned...) we need to police ourselves. It's obvious that GW is either unwilling or unable to do it. That means not allowing unreasonable stuff to go by with just a "blame the judge, gratz to the winner" attitude.

Here are my questions:

I want to hear an argument, from someone who knows the tournament game, for how it could be argued that allowing the DOW deployment rules to trump the codex daemons deployment would not be a HUGE game breaking advantage, in a demon army that clearly is not supposed to have that kind of advantage in one third of games.

Or a link to a thread here or anywhere else, where the demons get to deploy and ds turn 1 argument gets made and is not immediately shouted down.

Here's one last question. Does anyone who has been there think that this could possibly have happened at Adepticon? I sure don't.

Again, let's hear it. Why would it not be a big deal?

Close this here and take it to YMDC - that is what that board is for - I will throw my 2 cents over there, but not here.

I'm not clear on the exact circumstances, but my buddy was there (GO Sabote!! 9th place!!!!) and he didn't recall it either.

If they ruled that the whole Demon army could drop 1st turn then yes, I'd be pissed. I'm not really clear on why they would have to alter anything at all about the Demons rules. It seems liek they would have the advantage anyway in DoW because they are always forced into starting with part of their army on the table.

Nurgleboy77 wrote:
If they ruled that the whole Demon army could drop 1st turn then yes, I'd be pissed. I'm not really clear on why they would have to alter anything at all about the Demons rules. It seems liek they would have the advantage anyway in DoW because they are always forced into starting with part of their army on the table.

Yak explained this earlier, but to be clear here--DOW gives you the OPTION of deploying. Using codex Daemons TAKES AWAY that option, as it says you must deploy as stated. You must not break any rules See yakface's post on p3 of the locked thread.

There seems to be a factual dispute as to whether the hq and two troops were on the table before turn one. Daemons player said no. Dark Eldar guy said yeah.

biztheclown wrote:Yak explained this earlier, but to be clear here--DOW gives you the OPTION of deploying. Using codex Daemons TAKES AWAY that option, as it says you must deploy as stated. You must not break any rules See yakface's post on p3 of the locked thread.

Sounds like you answered your own question. I'd say Yakface is "on the high level tournament scene".

biztheclown wrote: It's obvious that GW is either unwilling or unable to do it. That means not allowing unreasonable stuff to go by with just a "blame the judge, gratz to the winner" attitude.

Sounds like your beef is with GW. Do what everyone esle does when they are disgruntled with GW, talk to them. Tons of people in tons of threads complain about GW. Nothing much can get done here.

If your beef is with what the daemons player thought he could do. PM him.

The thing is, it never was judged that way. At least not so anyone but the used heard it and even the judge claims not to know about it. So this wasnt the problem in this case.

Kallbrand wrote:The thing is, it never was judged that way. At least not so anyone but the used heard it and even the judge claims not to know about it. So this wasnt the problem in this case.

Not everyone who was there posts on this site. No one hear knows all the facts except the 2 people involved. And even they are confused on some issues.

Besides, this kind of talk is why the other thread was banned. This thread is about a user wanting to talk about rules. Which has been answered.

If I were you I would bring a wiffle bat. When you sense evil afoot beat yourself over the head with the bat while shouting "Is it safe Martin? IS IT SAFE MARTIN?"

Thats about as useful as this thread.

someone sent me a PM stating that Gareth had indeed cheated but when I asked a few questions he could offer nothing as definitive proof. The judge made a bad call and the DE player should know the rules better. I would have gone with the 60 mm bases to lessen the effect of the DE plasma cannon equivalent. Gareth said he discussed the use of bases with all his opponents. The DE player says he didn't. If I had been the DE player and I told Gareth to use the bigger bases I would have made darn sure he did... look at what was on the line. Sounds like sour grapes to me and biz I dont mean this as an insult but honestly you come across as someone who is very bitter with the hobby and have an axe to grind. Let it go for goodness sakes!

G

Frazzled wrote:If I were you I would bring a wiffle bat. When you sense evil afoot beat yourself over the head with the bat while shouting "Is it safe Martin? IS IT SAFE MARTIN?"

Thats about as useful as this thread.

Let's just listen to the mods and stop posting useless stuff that has nothing to do with us.

Biztheclown, starting this thread was exactly the right thing to do. The previous thread was being swamped with insults and accusations, and the signal-to-noise ratio had dropped too low.

This fresh start has a much better chance of getting your questions answered.

The issue may be in the special missions for Ard Boyz. I recall some real wonky things with Deployment in the 1st round this year. Damn, I wish Istill had those missions. I recall there was something where Deamons had to deploy something in one mission. I could be wrong though.

Iorek wrote:Biztheclown, starting this thread was exactly the right thing to do. The previous thread was being swamped with insults and accusations, and the signal-to-noise ratio had dropped too low.

This fresh start has a much better chance of getting your questions answered.

I disagree. If he was asking a simple rules question then yes, but he's not, he's asking an almost rhetorical "how could you be so stupid" kind of question. This thread will be nothing more than picking up where the other one left off.

QFT.

G

At this point - the DE player or maybe the 2nd and 3rd place finishers need to take it up with GW if they really feel they were "cheated". At this point - the event is over and the awards given - I would imagine it's a done deal. Making this a deal after the fact is sour grapes anyway.

For the rest of us - it's none of our business and we should let it go.

Aduro wrote:

Iorek wrote:Biztheclown, starting this thread was exactly the right thing to do. The previous thread was being swamped with insults and accusations, and the signal-to-noise ratio had dropped too low.

This fresh start has a much better chance of getting your questions answered.

I disagree. If he was asking a simple rules question then yes, but he's not, he's asking an almost rhetorical "how could you be so stupid" kind of question. This thread will be nothing more than picking up where the other one left off.

You're right; I just kind of skimmed the post (that's what I get for doing this at work).

And biztheclown, no one's going to get banned for making an argument about the tournament scene. However, at this point there seems to be nothing new being said and it's just getting everyone's hackles up.