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So I'm trying to build a chaos army but in the mean time I need something to play with to keep me busy. I used gaunts when first getting back into 40k but they suck so I'm shelving them. I might use a couple broods of WoN gaunts at a bigger points level but I didn't feel it necessary here. I've read a lot about what works and what doesn't on these forums and elsewhere and I'm pretty confident this covers a lot of corners (there are some weaknesses) and would be fun to play against. How does the following list look? To me it looks good on paper, but I haven't play-tested it yet. Sorry for the crazy format, I use excel to create lists and it doesn't transfer well.


1 Hive Tyrant A.M., +1 WS, I.A., + S, + 2A, FH 133
2 Guard Lash Whips, Flesh Hooks 92

1 Broodlord Acid Maw, Flesh Hooks 85
8 G.S. Feeder Tendrils, Flesh Hooks 144

1 Carnifex x2 Devour, +1 BS 113
1 Carnifex x2 Devour, +1 BS 113
1 Carnifex B.S., S.T. 113

10 11 G.S. Feeder Tendrils 170
10 11 G.S. Feeder Tendrils 170
5 Rippers Leaping 70
5 Rippers Leaping 70

1 Carnifex + 2A, +1 WS, Toxic Miasma, F.H. 114
1 Carnifex + 2A, +1 WS, Toxic Miasma 113

Comes out to 1500 dead on with 47 models, 8 being T6 with 28 wounds between them. The only thing I'm not sure about is the walking cc tyrant, but I've read that the cc tyrant with guard is good at both taking shots and dealing out wounds once it gets there. My genestealers will be well hid early in the game (behind a wall of T6 creatures) and I won't move them out until within assaulting range. I gave them all feeder tendrils to benefit the monstrous creatures once assaults begin to take place.

Comments please

Are there really no tyranid players out there with input on this list. From what I've read this is a more common theme. In my games gaunts-synapse kills more of my models than the enemy does so my idea was to get rid of it.

If there are any comments on this please post them. I have a similar 2000 pt list made that I plan to play a friend with (he plays eldar) and want to make sure that I'm getting the most of all my points.

Hi,

Well, it looks a bit like Nid-zilla to me but if that's what you like, go for it!

I wonder how this would fair against my army with my about 100 gaunts might eat me for breakfast, but would be fun to see.

Personally I think the model count is a bit low for 1500 points (obviously it's the opposite of what I'm making but that's what you're going to get with Nid-zilla. You don't think it would be worthwhile to screen your stealers behind a few cheap squads of gaunts? They'll get their cover save from it and all you'll be losing is cannon fodder. If they're targetting your little guys with all those carnifexes coming, they're in trouble anyway. As it is, if you hide them behind the carnifexes and slowly walk them together, they won't have to split their fire or their attention from the carnifexes with the big guns- they'll just blast away at them.

Just my $0.02. Saw a tyranid player at the bunker last weekend who had a similar list (very carnifex heavy), and he just didn't have the speed or flexibility to get over to a holdout group of guardsmen, even though he obliterated the other half of the guy's army. I'd like to see scuttlers, some gaunts, or something that would give you that flexibility (for claiming objectives, responding quickly, etc, which your carnifexes can't do) rather than being really good at just one thing... which is what I see this list as being.

Post results if you try it out!!!!!!

Drummerboy wrote:
8 G.S. Feeder Tendrils, Flesh Hooks 144

This is incorrect, im sorry, Feeder Tandrils or Flesh hooks (imo with the lord wtih hooks ill use tendrils xD)

It's easier to understand what's going on when you use less abbreviations, might be part of why people didn't respond immediately to you.

Tyrant- Acid Maw, +1 WS, Implant Attack, 2x Scything Talons, Flesh Hooks- 133

I'm assuming this is what that is? You might want to consider giving this guy Toxin Sacs and the other Adrenal Gland, +1 Initiative. Being S6 and I6 will help more when fighting other monstrous creatures and independent characters, which is what I'm assuming you'll be using this guy for. In my experience, a walking assault tyrant is generally just something that absorbs a ton of firepower before it eventually dies. Very rarely do people actually get it tangled up in something worthwhile. Whenever I see my opponents using one, I just avoid it altogether. With limited mobility, they're pretty easy to avoid.

You might want to switch the mouth upgrades on your Broodlord and Genestealers. Give the Lord the Tendrils and his retinue the Acid Maw. Also give your Lord Toxin Sacs. With his boosted strength, he won't really need to be re-rolling wounds, but your Genestealers will be able to re-roll both attacks and wounds with this setup.

Dakkafexes are a good way to spend 113 points, lots of firepower and high resilience. I don't use the Stranglerfex setup very often, almost never, actually. I find that investing 35 more points to make him a Sniperfex in the heavy support slot is always worthwhile.

5th edition gave Genestealers a wonderful new ability, outflanking with Scuttling. This lets your Stealers start the game off the board and you'll find most opponents totally forget about them until they slide in from the sides and destroy something. In this case, you'll find that you might want to switch to Flesh Hooks instead of Feeder Tendrils. Striking first will be much more important when assaulting units in cover than re-rolling 3+ attacks.

However, your plan isn't bad at all, either, so long as your opponent focuses on the Monstrous Creatures. Hiding them behind a carnifex gives them a cover save, but doesn't block LoS.

Ripper swarms are pretty much a waste of points in 5th edition. They can't score as mindless swarm units and get crushed thanks to new combat resolution rules on fearless models.

Your two Ninjafex are fun once they get into combat, but much like your walking tyrant, unless your opponent is just amazingly immobile you'll have a hard time catching up to deal wounds.

Wow, thanks for all the reviews. Unfortunately I don't have time to repost the list without the abbreviations but I will do that later tonight possibly. Thank you for the comments as I was unsure about a couple of things.

I will update the list later.

Okay, I guess first off I have a couple questions...

1) What are Sniper Fexes? I haven't played since third and back then I don't remember there being a dozen different names for a carnifex.
2) How should I outfit my Tyrant? I was thinking with 2 devourers, but I don't want to ruin what he is best at which is hand to hand. Also I figured the tyrant guard and tyrant would absorb a lot of firepower and if if it was ignored it could be a fatal mistake in turns 3 or so. I also have a flying hive tyrant with two scything talons if that would be better...
3)I thought about giving myself a gaunt screen actually, but I thought the rippers might be better at getting across the field and tying up a couple units. I didn't expect them to kill anything, but holding up a unit and letting the tyrant, fexes, and stealers come in and clean up.

My plan with this the way it is: Use the CC monstrous creatures to run toward the enemy and try and block line of site to the stealers if at all possible. The shootie bugs will provide cover fire and do as much damage as possible while also helping block line of sight to the stealers. With this, I figure if I roll average I can get a 3rd turn charge with the bigger bugs if not a 2nd turn (depending on what the enemy does) The stealers can come in and help sweep up any bigger units that haven't been taken care. Hopefully the enemy will be overwhelmed with stuff to shoot at and once any real damage starts to add up, I'll be within assault range and able to start turning the game around.

Hive Tyrant 138 pts.
Toxin Sacs, +1 WS, Implant Attack, x2 Scything Talons, Flesh Hooks, Adrenal Glands
w/ x2 Guard 92 pts.
Lash Whips and Flesh Hooks

Broodlord 83 pts.
Feeder Tendrils, Toxin Sacs
BG: x8 Genestealers with Acid Maw 160 pts.

Carnifex 113 pts.
x2 Devour, +1 BS

Carnifex 113 pts.
x2 Devour, +1 BS

Carnifex 113 pts.
Barbed Strangler & Scything Talons

10 G.S. 170 pts.
Feeder Tendrils

10 G.S. 170 pts.
Feeder Tendrils

Carnifex 113 pts.
x2 Scything Talons, +1 WS, Toxic Miasma

Carnifex 113 pts.
x2 Scything Talons, +1 WS, Toxic Miasma

Total: 1378

Hopefully this is a little more descriptive and easier for everyone to follow. I use Excel to do my army lists and I shorthand a lot of stuff and I forgot to change it over. Thanks for pointing out that error on the broodlord. I came out at 1499 and needed to spend one point so I just thought about flesh hooks for the brood lord. With this set up the way it is, I have 122 points left and I'm not sure what the best way to use them is. I am open to suggestions so please if you see anything that you'd change (that fits the scheme of the army) please feel free to offer your input as I'm sure most of the people on here are better players than I am...especially with my 5e tyranids.

Drummerboy wrote: try and block line of site to the stealers if at all possible. The shootie bugs will provide cover fire and do as much damage as possible while also helping block line of sight to the stealers.

I don't think you'll be successful in actually blocking LOS to the stealers, but you can certainly give them a cover save. Gaunts would also be good for this.

I think scuttlers would be really good for at least one of your units (I'm not at my codex at the moment, but if the broodlord and company could do it, that'd be my choice).

So I'd use the points for scuttlers, perhaps a squad of screening gaunts (since they'd be crazy to waste their fire on them, they should live to screen) since you could also claim objectives with them (get the cheap without number kind, and if they die they'll just appear back in the back and can hold a back objective), or just filling out those squads of stealers to make them really scary.

Drummer Boy

I just built a nid list. Rather than present it as I'm right and you are wrong, I thought I could just show you what I came up with and explain it to you. Maybe some of the logic will be useful.

The biggest consideration in lists is actually the models you own, that is the thing that is hard to change. If you are working on paper rather than from existing models it is easier to be flexible.

My list:

HQ 1:

Hive Tyrant (Like yours) Has Warp Blast: The thinking is that you might like some STR 10 shooting that doesn't autoglance. Warp Blast is the only PURE STR 10 shooting in the nid arsenal. Instant kills plenty and can crack a landraider for you. STR 5 AP 3 blast is a handy backup.

HQ 2:

9 Warriors with death spitters and Scything Talons. Reason: These are cover saves not only for the Hive Tyrant but the Carnifexes too! In a line they make a shield about 26" across and can shoot 9 STR 5 blast templates which will not only rape any infantry unit they target but also scatter and mess with the whole area of board they are aimed at, likely hitting other things. Can't be instant killed, two wounds each and synapse creatures!

Also these two HQ combined are fairly cheap than your two. They enhance each other and function together.

Elite: Three Canifexes with barbed stranglers and scything talons. Reasoning: The barbed strangler with STR 8, big template and 36" and ASSAULT, is simply too awesome to leave at home. Multiply the power of it! This is filling the board with green pie plates of doom. 36" range is the key. it gives your army OUTREACH!

Troops: Two units of 8 termagaunts without number. These guys give the warriors cover saves. Without number is simply too good to NOT take it. If the other guy kills you five times you get 40 gaunts for the price of 8! Good cover saves! Also they are good for CC?? How ??? you ask? These are the idiots that can FLEET into CC so that your happy carnifexes don't have to. Tie up the enemy, aim your barbed stranglers at a point near the battle and watch them scatter ON to the mellee! hahaha! They die you come back to fleet again!

One unit on genestealers. These hide behind the carnis and you use them if the enemy gets into CC

Heavy: 2 MAXED out carnifexes with BS scything talons T:7 W:5 A:2 I:2 mace tail, Toxic miasma, tusks, +1 WS just about everything including the kitchen sink you can afford and Regenerating!!!! hahaha! They have genestealers running in their shadow if anything wants to tangle the stealers will shred that threat but other wise you have incredibly resilient bastardo nexes dropping those ugly STR 8 BS templates turn after turn after turn until all is dead or dying! Your stealers have got feeder tendrils of course, so that the big carnis also get to reroll missed attacks in CC! hahaha!


One Carnifex with two venom cannons and BS upgrade. Reasoning: 4 STR 10 shots at BS 3 will come in handy against light armour, scouting units and even heavy armour sometimes.

In total four of the carnis are "little ones" but the big two are seriously tough.

The army concept is mutual support and cover saves for everyone except the expendable gaunts. 5 STR 8 pies 9 STR 5 pies a warpblast and 4 STR 10 shots is a shooty nid list that will move on mass and shoot huge amounts of firepower. If anyone comes to CC party though they will suddenly be tangling with big nasty carnis backed by a CC tyrant, all those warriors and of course those excellent lurking-in-the-rear genestealers will fleet in and let all the models get rerolls to hit.

Any of that change your perspective?

I like this one but haven't tested it in battle yet. I'm sure its not overpowered and can be beaten by competitive lists, but it should do very well aginst plenty of comers. It should make excretement of most orc lists for example!

OTG

@ OTG - 2 VCs gets you 2 shots that are TL. Not 4 shots.

-Ruffgutz

RiTides Nids, that's what I meant by block line of sight, just give the genestealers a cover save. I am still trying to decide about scuttlers, it would be a nice upgrade but I don't have to give it to the broodlord do I? I was under the understanding that he already got the infiltration rule. Although having one of the extra brood to flank too could strike a lot of fear into a lot of players and might force the enemy if nothing else to consolidate their army in the middle to get away from the flanks. Interesting idea....

Orc Town Grot, I like parts of your list, the only thing I'm not sure about is the warriors and the maxed out fexes. Being only T4, I'm afraid they'd die fast (of course I guess that's the idea) but it seems like 260 points is a lot of points for a screen. Though 10 deathspitters would be nice to lay into the enemy every turn. Have you tried these out? If you do let me know how they work out.

The only thing with the maxed out fexes is that they seem really tough, but they are a big point sink and for the price of 2 of them I could have 3 regular fexes. How do these big guys tend to work out for you?

Also, I like having more genestealers because I know they can lay down a punch in hand to hand situations where my 5 carnifexes might not be able to help as much. Such as hordes or daemons where ignoring armor saves isn't as important as getting a lot of wounds. I think I have enough MC's and rending to handle all the armor and heavy infantry.


Hive Tyrant 138 pts.
Toxin Sacs, +1 WS, Implant Attack, x2 Scything Talons, Flesh Hooks, Adrenal Glands
w/ x2 Guard 92 pts.
Lash Whips and Flesh Hooks

Broodlord 83 pts.
Feeder Tendrils, Toxin Sacs
BG: x8 Genestealers with Acid Maw 160 pts.

Carnifex 113 pts.
x2 Devour, +1 BS

Carnifex 113 pts.
x2 Devour, +1 BS

Carnifex 113 pts.
Barbed Strangler & Scything Talons

10 G.S. 200 pts.
Feeder Tendrils, Scuttlers

10 G.S. 170 pts.
Feeder Tendrils

11 Gaunts 88 pts.
Spinefists, WoN

Carnifex 113 pts.
x2 Scything Talons, +1 WS, Toxic Miasma

Carnifex 113 pts.
x2 Scything Talons, +1 WS, Toxic Miasma

Total: 1496

So with this I have a shield for the genestealers that will walk across the board and I have 2 units that can flank that should be able to take out just about anything. Does this look a little better? I know the gaunt count is low, but if people even waste one turn shooting them out, then they will have done their job and they can always come back and chill out on an objective. I really feel good about this list, but I'm still open to the outfit of the MC's. I don't know what I would take off to make room for warp blast on the tyrant, but that would help give him a stronger role in the army.

Thanks for all the help so far.

**edit for spelling**

Hi,

This looks better to me! Now you've got a dedicated unit to screen for those stealers, and you can bring the others on from the side. And the big bugs are getting closer all the time...

I'd be interested to see if this is enough models, or if it'd be better to drop a fex in favor of another squad, but it looks good as is. It also looks like you know what you want for your core (the tyrant with guard, the broodlord and stealers, two squads of stealers, 2-3 shooty carnifexes, and 2 assaulting ones) which makes for most of the list, and you can always tweak say the size of the gaunt squad or other add-ons depending on how it works for you.

Could you find the points to give the second squad of stealers scuttlers? Then you're able to bring them all on for a suprise, and just walk the bigs bugs. I'd still keep the gaunts in case you need a troop squad to hold the back, or just to be a bother since they're WoN. This would give you tons of flexibility imho... something to try out when you've got it going.

Also, you're right about the broodlord, like I said I wasn't at my codex. Anyway, I'd love to see the last unit have scuttlers, too... if you were doing that you could probably get away with 8 gaunts, drop the +1 WS from the tyrant and you're set to get the last scuttlers

Also gives you some fluff... the stealers go in early and find everything out, then come the big bugs. Not sure how to work in the gaunts, maybe they're like the equivalent of grots to wait hand and foot on these big fellas

I'm trying to figure out a way to move points around but I can't seem to come up with anything that doesn't hurt me elsewhere. One good thing about having the genestealers that will be walking is that they can help with units like terminators assaulting out of a LR or something like that. Also they'd be good to have in the event that drop pods start falling out of the sky all around my walking stuff.

Should I make the hive tyrant a dakka tyrant? It would be cheaper than warpblast and if I gear him up for shooting then he will probably get to do a little more damage per game. Though I can think of situations when he would be less effective than if outfitted for close combat.

Going back to the earlier question of what a Snierfex is: Enhanced Senses, Venom Cannon, Barbed Strangler, 148pts. More effective overall than the Stranglerfex for only 35 more points.

As stated, I'm not a fan of assault Tyrants. A couple power fists shuts them down fairly handily, as does people just walking away and shooting them with plasma or melta shots. That being said, I love my flying dakkatyrant to no end. 30" threat range, 12 S5, BS4, Twin-linked, re-rolling wounds shots. This can shut down a monstrous creature in one turn and whittles down Marine infantry fairly well right before a Genestealer assault. For non-Marine infantry it's incredibly deadly, and all for 196 points. Yes, anything AP2 is something to be avoided, but with an 18" range and 12" movement you can generally avoid things or hide behind cover.

You might want to invest in one more troop choice, but to do so would likely cost you a Carnifex.

I have a quick question concerning scuttlers.

It says that a unit with scuttlers counts as having the scout rule which gives me a free move and allows me to attempt to outflank the enemy. Does anyone use outflanking on a regular basis? If so , does it work well? It seems like 1/3 of the time you could come on from an edge that would just put you out in the middle of no where. Especially when the armies are deploy in quadrants.

Also, I haven't decided how I think I will use the broodlord/infiltrate rule. I guess it depends on who gets first turn and such.

BTW I was able to work in the points for scuttlers on the other unit of genestealers.

Played a test game with the store army of tyranids yesterday (mine is still half-assembled and I'm doing it all at once!). Used the outflanking ability with a broodlord and 5 stealers and rolled a 5, so they got to come on the side I wanted. They absolutely destroyed a tactical squad shooting from the back of the enemy's army! I haven't used 'em before so I don't know if they're usually this effective... but it was nice and also sad since I'm not taking any of these in my army

You could also simply infiltrate one of the squads with scuttlers, instead of outflanking, so having 3 of these units would give a lot of options!

Great