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Hi, i´ll very gratefull if you take a look to this list and give me your impression.

Thanks in advance!

Hive Tyrant - 196
Winged, Toxin Sacs (+1 S), Warp Field, TwLinked Devourer, TwLinked Devourer

Hive Tyrant – 162+90
Toxin sacs (+1 S), VC, Barbed Strangler, Enh Senses (+1 BS), toxic miasma
Retinue: 2 guards with whip


Dakkafex - 113
Enh Senses (+1 BS)
Twl Devourer

Dakkafex - 113
Enh Senses (+1 BS)
Twl Devourer

3 x Tyranid Warriors - 102
All Toxin Sacs (+1 S)
1x Barbed Strangler and Whip
1x Deathspitter and Whip
1x Deathspitter and Rending Claws


Gunfex - 148
V-Cannon
Strangler
Enh Senses (+1 BS)

Gunfex - 148
V-Cannon
Strangler
Enh Senses (+1 BS)



6 x Genestealers - 102
Feeder Tendrils

6 x Genestealers - 102
Feeder Tendrils

8 x Spinegaunts - 64
WON
Spinefist

8 x Genestealers - 160
Feeder Tendrils
Scuttler

Total: 1500


Hi, this is my first post although I’ve been reading a lot.

Since I haven’t chosen yet my tyranid list I propose this one to you.

The idea is easy, those gunfex shooting whichever they can with their 3+ cover save (no synapse for them) and one of the genestealers for counter charging near them, maybe near an objective so try to control in later turns.

Walking Hive tyrant and Dakkafex advancing, first covering seconds and those in cover, 4+ for everyone!

Flanking Genestealers are only for scaring the opponent (very goods at that) and making him get his minis close.

Gaunts for the base or objective, in annihilation hiding, near the warrior for synapse if needed, probably not in first turns but lasts for controlling, I assume all know how to play the WON-synapse game.

About flying tyrant I’m not sure. I don’t know whether It will be more useful as full H2H, I assume is trying, I think I have a lack of H2H…

You don't need devourers on your winged HT. You've put in 2x dakkafexes which should do the job at 1500.

Tool him up for CC instead.

Welcome.

Im sort of new to nids as it be, but im learning quick.

I see you have gone towards Nidzilla and you have done well. i really cant see anything wrong with it at the moment [this may change] well done

I must respectfully disagree with Calvin about making your flyrant into an assault creature. Two dakkafexes are indeed great, but they won't have the mobility or fire output that the devourers on the winged tyrant will. Keep this guy, he's great. One slight thing, you seem to have the points listed for it, but you didn't write in enhanced senses for the flyrant.

I'd probably drop the two Tyrant Guard and toxic miasma from your Sniper Tyrant. He's going to be sitting in the back with the two sniperfex, he doesn't really need the extra wounds nor anti-assault protection. I'd put the points into more Genestealers, they fill in exactly right with all the firepower your MCs are bringing.

I personally don't get a large amount of use from Warriors, but I've seen other people swear by them. Keep them if they work out for you, otherwise switch to more troops, either another unit of Gaunts or more Genestealers. Can't go wrong with any of these three ways.

Overall, good list, should clean house on a regular basis. Just remember to play defensively with those 6-man Genestealer squads. They're nasty, but very fragile while running about the board.

Thanks for the replies.

On one hand the tyrant will not be with sniperfexes so as not having sinapse the have a +1 cover save, but with the dakkfex and 6 of those genestealers, moving to have range with fexes and thus tyrant with guards are an unit not a MC the get cover for area terrains, just as infantry, and carnis cover for been behind tyrand and retinue, and genes will be hided behind the 2 carnis, who are close together.

About flyrant, yes, he have BS but i forgot writting down xD

Warriors are ok

Sorry, Lurking units that are Monstrous Creatures do not get +1 to their cover saves, so they're still 4+ save against Missiles and Lascannons.

Looks like you know how you're going to run your list, then. Good luck and protect the Genestealers.

Kirbinator wrote:Sorry, Lurking units that are Monstrous Creatures do not get +1 to their cover saves, so they're still 4+ save against Missiles and Lascannons.

Damm, i have to check the codex! My memory is going worse with the age!

Kirbinator wrote:Looks like you know how you're going to run your list, then. Good luck and protect the Genestealers.

No plan survives first encounter with reality. BEsides i have played enough in 5th to know exactly waht to do and when, many posible variants they are xD

I will agree, definitely keep the Tyrant dakka'd up. He pumps out enough nasty shots that you can still get him stuck in with whoever he shot at safely... there wont be enough of the squad left to be very scary lol.

Dont think so, shoooting at marines eg will only die an average of 3, and i´m more afraid of long range weapons, such as lasscannon, exorcist, railgun... If in H2H he cant be shooted, although he losses his mobility

Zandramas wrote:tyrant with guards are an unit not a MC the get cover for area terrains, just as infantry, and carnis cover for been behind tyrand and retinue

What? You want to count a hive tyrant with tyrant guard as NOT a monstrous creature, but as infantry, and then get cover saves for monstrous creatures behind them? One of these is definetly wrong. Monstrous creatures don't get cover saves from infantry. I assume a monstrous creature obscured from LOS behind another monstrous creature could get a save, just like a vehicle. But not from hiding behind infantry. So one of those two is just not true. I would think it's the tyrant not being a MC just because he's in a unit with tyrant guard, although I could be wrong...

RiTides Nids,

A tyrant with Guard can take advantage of area terrain because at least 50% of the unit can be considered to be in cover, Tyrant Guard not not monstrous creatures so they deal with terrain as any other infantry does: any obscurity to LoS offers a cover save. Beyond that, his other Monstrous Creatures could get a cover save from the Guard and Tyrant unit if the Monstrous Creature is at least 50% concealed behind them. Tyranid Warriors, Guard, Lictors, etc. can offer Monstrous Creatures a cover save because they are just that big a model.

The tough part there is that to get a cover save from the Tyrant and Guard unit, the Carnifex will have to be right behind them as far as drawing LoS is concerned since the Carnifex model must literally be covered by at least 50%. Yes it's possible, but unless you are running a close-knit screen in the same direction as everything shooting at you, it's pretty difficult.

Kirbinator wrote:Tyranid Warriors, Guard, Lictors, etc. can offer Monstrous Creatures a cover save because they are just that big a model.

This would mean that vehicles could also get a cover save from infantry, since monstrous creatures treat cover just like vehicles. Is that what you're saying? That's new to me... sorry if it was obvious to everyone else.

The thing that obviously comes to mind is a tactical squad getting out of a rhino. They're pretty tall, there's 10 of them... you're saying the rhino will get a cover save for being behind them (since they're at least 50% as tall as it)? Doesn't make sense to me... but I'm still trying to adapt to the new rules.

Thanks for any clarification anyone...

Kirbinator wrote:

A tyrant with Guard can take advantage of area terrain because at least 50% of the unit can be considered to be in cover, Tyrant Guard not not monstrous creatures so they deal with terrain as any other infantry does: any obscurity to LoS offers a cover save. Beyond that, his other Monstrous Creatures could get a cover save from the Guard and Tyrant unit if the Monstrous Creature is at least 50% concealed behind them. Tyranid Warriors, Guard, Lictors, etc. can offer Monstrous Creatures a cover save because they are just that big a model.

That´s the point

Kirbinator wrote:The tough part there is that to get a cover save from the Tyrant and Guard unit, the Carnifex will have to be right behind them as far as drawing LoS is concerned since the Carnifex model must literally be covered by at least 50%. Yes it's possible, but unless you are running a close-knit screen in the same direction as everything shooting at you, it's pretty difficult.

don´t think it´s so dificult, think that only has to cover half of the body, nor weapons, tail and so on

Very Similar to my nid list I'm working on...have only played one game with them tho but it won.

HQ
Flyrant-Warp Field, 2xTL Dev
Tyrant- BS and VC, Toxic Sacs, Bio-Plasma,Ripper, 2x Guards with Lash

Elite
2x Fexes with 2 TL Dev and +1BS

Troop
2x 8 Genestealers Feeder Tendrils
2x 8 Spingaunts WoN

Heavy
2 Zoan with Warp Blast
2 Fex BS and VC, +1 BS

Elite Fexes in Front, Genestealer behind them flanked by the other 2 Fexes, Tyrant and Zoans Flank the Gaunts to the objective and sit on them, Flyrant moves around killing what he can.

The point is that the warp blast always have been a pain for me, never useful for taking down vehicules so now i stun them and then assault or just let the been there, doing nothing

I would drop the SpineGaunts to put Scuttlers on a Genestealer unit or two. The flanking ability is very handy for a slower force like this. You can tie up a couple units to give time for the MCs to get closer.

Scuttlers would be nice the gaunts might come in handy though (esp if you need to hold objectives with troops, you'll need one stealers squad to hang back otherwise... kind of a waste if gaunts can do it), if you can find the points elsewhere!!!

MC's do "not" get a cover save from Warriors, Zoanthropes or Lictors, those models might be of a similiar model size but the rules for MC's clearly state the limitations on what exactly they can draw cover from. And these models are not it. Guard from a Tyrant, yes.

Not to mention if you're using Lictor's, Zoanthropes, or even Warriors to cover your Carni then you're already in a bad situation that you're probably not going to win, since you're just handing them KPS, and allowing them to blast holes through your expensive models. Not to mention a Carni's not as easily taken down as it might seem and if you're getting hallowed from afar by anti-tank weaponry, think about using more cover (provided you thought to bring/make some for covering a Carni.) or using units that you can Deep Strike and tie up those Heavy Support anti-tankers. Just some advice.

Also, a Tyrant with a Tyrant Guard is STILL a MC. The only change in that fact is that with the Guard the Tyrant "can't" be targeted as if it were by itself. Because if you lost the MC then it would lose the benefits that it still has while in the squad of Guards.

As for your list Zandramas, I'm in the middle between Chimera_Calvin and Kirbinator in reguards to your Flyrant. If you like the shots of the TL Devourer, than take one, but since he's an assault engine with those wings, I'd give him 1 set of Scything Talons, that way when you rush him in, he has those to deal with anything that he might and will run into. Also, Flyrants are a bit more fragile than they used to be so be sure to use him like jump troops and try to jump him from cover to cover till your ready for him to assault a squad/unit. So he doesn't expose himself to too much enemy fire.

Just my thoughts.

I was under the impression monstrous creatures could gain cover saves much like a vehicle, you just need to have 50% or more of the model out of LOS.

Tanks yes will give cover saves. They are big enough, but what I'm talking about is Warriors, Zoans, and Lictors, they are not considered big enough to cover the model. Unless its been stated otherwise.

And thats one issue that has been put on the table reguarding Tyranids in general. Due to modeling conversion you can make something block a good bit of TLOS. This issue came up with Zoans since they literally stand over infantry models and they don't cover more than 50% of the body, and since they're not MC's its arguable that they should be given a cover save from troops. This more falls on the players to decide what they can or can not accept as cover. This should be decided upon before a game starts so that it minimizes disputes during gameplay. As well Lictors bodies traditionally aren't wide enough to obscure a MC, but this along with the Zoan issue, should be talked about before the game starts, if its a tourny ask the Judges/Ref's to see how they want to rule on that, if its just an friendly exhibition game discuss it before the game and before you lay down cover as the decision might influence your placing of cover.

Aztralwolf wrote:I was under the impression monstrous creatures could gain cover saves much like a vehicle, you just need to have 50% or more of the model out of LOS.

Yes, but most vehicles don't get cover from troops or elite troops choices. They're just to big for a squad to be able to fully block their view. Most of those rules for vehicles are reguarding buildings being in the way or possibly a Dreadnought for Marines, or an Avatar for Eldar (these are just immediate examples). But again large units usually are given the MC special rule to help alleviate these disputes. From my experience if its not an obvious answer, discuss it with your opponent before you play, its the easiest and simplest way to deal with most issues that aren't cut and dry.

Fexor wrote:Tanks yes will give cover saves. They are big enough, but what I'm talking about is Warriors, Zoans, and Lictors, they are not considered big enough to cover the model. Unless its been stated otherwise.-

I disagree with this, here in Spain it’s common to hide MC behind warriors who already have cover, and IMO it’s perfectly legal, warriors are much more than 50% of a MC, taking into account that weapons, tails and so on do not count towards that, as specified in shooting rules, and even those parts counts they still offer cover to their biggest friends.

Fexor wrote:Yes, but most vehicles don't get cover from troops or elite troops choices. They're just to big for a squad to be able to fully block their view.-

I think you haven’t realized is that you have to cover 50% of the model, not entirely.

Fexor wrote:Also, a Tyrant with a Tyrant Guard is STILL a MC. The only change in that fact is that with the Guard the Tyrant "can't" be targeted as if it were by itself. Because if you lost the MC then it would lose the benefits that it still has while in the squad of Guards.-Fexor

The point is not that he losses MC rules, he still don´t get cover for being in an area element for sure, but guards do, and if more than the 50% of the unit has cover all the unit has it. Being a unit is beyond any doubt I think…

But all of this have nothing to do with the list, go to it!

Fexor wrote:As for your list Zandramas, I'm in the middle between Chimera_Calvin and Kirbinator in reguards to your Flyrant. If you like the shots of the TL Devourer, than take one, but since he's an assault engine with those wings, I'd give him 1 set of Scything Talons, that way when you rush him in, he has those to deal with anything that he might and will run into. Also, Flyrants are a bit more fragile than they used to be so be sure to use him like jump troops and try to jump him from cover to cover till your ready for him to assault a squad/unit. So he doesn't expose himself to too much enemy fire.

The last part is what made me reconsidered using him as an assault unit, LOS in the new edition. But as long as many places still don’t have redone his ruins, and houses and so I’m very unlikely to find anywhere to hide him, so I revert to my original idea of use it as Tl-devorurer.

Talking about making him mixed, I’m against using both H2H and shoot biomorphs on those guys, they usually become really expensive, and don’t rent what they cost.

Kribinator wrote:I'd probably drop the two Tyrant Guard and toxic miasma from your Sniper Tyrant. He's going to be sitting in the back with the two sniperfex, he doesn't really need the extra wounds nor anti-assault protection. I'd put the points into more Genestealers, they fill in exactly right with all the firepower your MCs are bringing. –

Well, indeed in think these tyrant will take much more firepower and H2H than you expect, but having in mind the modifications I’ll do (I’ll put them just now) I will drop the toxic miasma. And hopefully I could increase the number of my Genestealers! But points are not willing xD

Mattlov wrote:I would drop the SpineGaunts to put Scuttlers on a Genestealer unit or two. The flanking ability is very handy for a slower force like this. You can tie up a couple units to give time for the MCs to get closer.

Indeed Mc don’t want to get closer, not at all xD. Besides, one unit has scutlers, I think that’s enough

Not bad, but you haven't fully embraced 5th edition.

The dakkafex had its day, but that day has come and gone. I've had much more success with the strangler fex (Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons).

Warp Field is expensive at 1500. Those 35 points can be spent better somewhere else. Use these points, and find 10 more to add a 3rd Tyrant Guard. Don't be afraid to get them in HtH. This unit will tear apart most units in HtH.

The warriors are free points. I'd drop them for more genestealers. Warriors can be good, but you need a full squad of 9. 6 T4 wounds with a 4+ cover save is easy to kill.

I'd consider adding another wound to your sniperfexes.

Daydream wrote:Not bad, but you haven't fully embraced 5th edition.

The dakkafex had its day, but that day has come and gone. I've had much more success with the strangler fex (Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons).

I have changed one dakka for one stranglerfex, and gone well, but I missed a little those devourers

Daydream wrote:Warp Field is expensive at 1500. Those 35 points can be spent better somewhere else. Use these points, and find 10 more to add a 3rd Tyrant Guard. Don't be afraid to get them in HtH. This unit will tear apart most units in HtH.

I think this point has to do with 5th, but not in the way you see it. Warp field is very useful now, both to survive saturation shots and missile, what are getting commoner and commoner now in marines squads for its versatility. Even the 6+ is useful, sometimes.

Daydream wrote:The warriors are free points. I'd drop them for more genestealers. Warriors can be good, but you need a full squad of 9. 6 T4 wounds with a 4+ cover save is easy to kill.

Don’t think they are that easy, the usually are far away from enemy lines, and usually the Genestealers absorb many more shots. Besides, they add 2 small blasts S6 to my firepower (considering changing them for another sniperfex)

Daydream wrote:I'd consider adding another wound to your sniperfexes.

I think they ere much better ways of spending 15 points, let them shot at my covered Cárnifex, I think they won’t have enough antitank to bring down 24 MC wounds, if they have, is the same 24 than 26

Thanks for your opinions!