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IFirst I'll say I have played two games of WM and no games of Hordes. I chose circle mostly cause I can't decide on a WM faction but know I would likely collect a horde faction and a WM faction I figure I have some vacation time and will enjoy doing some painting so I picked up some circle models but not having played Hordes I somewhat feel like I am shooting in that dark as far as something that would be fun to play.

My first list so far is

Krueger
Warpwolf
Wold warden
Gorax

to expand to 500pts add
Shiftin Stones
Tharn Ravagers
Lord of the Feast
Swamp Gobber Belows

Reading the Warmachine forums it seems like there is not a lot of favor given to Tharn Ravagers but I am not seeing what the big deal is. They look cool and I might be able to pick up the models cheap. There is also a Tharn Solo "White Maine" or something rather that looks neat but I don't know what he does and can't find him in a book...evolution or primus. Can I get a few tips?

with Krueger you often see two WoldWardens and most circle players take Gatormen over Tharn Ravagers because the dish out more damage point for point and with Kruegars spell list they get a 4inch reach and with his chain lightning spell it's easy to damage models for the gatormen to do extra damage when they charge ect.

I prefer the Tharn myself. Be sure to get the Shaman.

They're faster and harder to hit than the Gators, but the Gators hit harder and can survive more hits.

Tharn also have pathfinder and the ability to ignore forests for LOS.

Tharn have the added bonus of being in-faction models. This doesn't matter so much with Krueger, but you'll find that they can really benefit from the in-faction spells of other Warlocks.

The Whitemane model is out and you can use him, but if you want more information on him you'll have to wait until the next book is released next year. His card has everything you should need already on it.

At 500 points, I prefer to diversify the warbeasts and will only take one Woldwarden with Krueger. A Warpwolf is much better at taking down heavies and higher DEF models. Krueger and one Warden can handle a lot of infantry on their own.

Personally, I'd swap out a Woldwyrd for your Gorax, but that's just a playstyle preference.
Definitely get the Shifting Stones or a Sentry Stone. Stones and Mannikins are gold without Krueger, but with him they serve dual purpose as lightning rods.

What Lemartes is trying to say is, Gatormen are more durable than Ravagers and have 3 base attacks with an ability that gives them extra damage against damaged living models. Combine that with Krueger's Forked Lightning spell which can lightly damage multiple models, and you have a heck of a combo.

Ravagers are considered by some to be too fragile for their point cost. They also sometimes need help hitting enemy models. Other Circle warlocks have ways of circumventing these drawbacks. Krueger does too, but does it in such a way that doesn't favor the Ravagers. Ravagers work best when using guerilla tactics, and Krueger is much more direct. Also, Krueger's support spells affect "friendly model/unit"s, not "friendly Circle model/unit". So you're not missing anything if you take Minions instead of a faction unit with him. All this means Gatormen are a better fit for Krueger than Ravagers are. With other Circle warlocks (Kromac and Morvahna in particular), Ravagers are the superior choice.

The Tharn Ravager White Mane's rules were in September's No Quarter magazine and will also be in the upcoming Metamorphosis. He's basically a MAT 8 Ravager Solo that can get up to three Heart Tokens instead of just one and spends them the same way as other Ravagers except he can also spend one to Leap in the same manner as the Totem Hunter. He also has an ability where whenever Ravagers have LOS to the White Mane charging and destroying an enemy model, those Ravagers get an additional die on melee damage rolls for one turn. Personally, I think he's good enough on his own to take without Ravagers, but I haven't gotten any game time with mine yet.

I like your warbeast selection. The Gorax/Warpwolf combo is excellent at taking out hard targets, and a MAT 8 Trampling Warpwolf is a nice option to have. Woldwardens pumping out Undergrowth and/or Forked Lightning every turn are always good.

Swamp Gobbers are good support for minimal points investment. Shifting Stones are a decent support unit and you can bounce Forked Lightning off of them, so they're a good choice too. The Lord of the Feast is a decent beatstick solo and causes Terror. Don't rely on him getting The Offering every game, but do rely on your opponent trying to kill him ASAP.

One note on Lightning Tendrils: It works on models/units. With it, a Warpwolf has a 13.5" threat range. A White Mane would be able to potentially kill more models in a turn. A LotF will be more likely to get The Offering. Don't be afraid to throw this spell around.

thanks for the replies. Definatley gives me food for thought on Tharn.

My other thought on the slot would be instead of Tharn I could put the Druids there but they look really specialised and fragil. How do you use them? My first impression was Devour would be the primary use with anti magic when the situation warrants but is that useful vs. both warmachine factions and Hordes or is it kind of a Hordes deal only? Tharn seem more versital and brute force oriented which was why I was leaning that direction for the slot. Basically I want an infantry unit whose primary job would be to take on infantry but could be useful else where.

Thanks again.

Druids are a nice unit. They are also very fragile but highly mobile. The only thing limiting the
Devourer is its range and its reliance on the unit leader. Anyone with any kind of sniping
is going to gun for him and try to aoe him to death.

So that makes me think that two units at 750 might not be unheard of.

Every top circle list I have seen place in tournaments seem to auto include the druids. Just food for thought.

The Druids are good. They're single wound infantry, which means they're fragile, but they're good. I'm always glad when I don't see them in a list.

The Tharn got a UA in Metamorphisis and a Solo (who I think gives them some boosts) coming out in the next supplement. I think the Solo is released soon, check the PP website. I think it is a Tharn Whitemane, and the rules were in a recent issue of No Quarter.

Ultimately, you need to play to have fun. Tharn might not be OMG borken, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't buy them if you like them and want to paint up a unit.

Anti magic chant is very strong and the devouring has been very powerfull for me when used right.

Thanks for the comments all
See the "when used right" clause is what give me pause since I am new Not sure if I will know when. It seems really short range and they need to get close enough but they do have camo which seems really good to help them get close. Specially with the swamp boggers.

The anti magic effect seems really tricky too. You got to kind of know what your opponent can do to make it effective and it seems like you want to lock down your opponent in combat first before you try.

Maybe the Tharn is a better way for me to go at least until I get a feel for the game. If I go that route though I am interested in the white mane since He buffs the unit but I am not sure what he does. I saw him at the shop but no book with his rules.

I should finish Krueger, Gorax and Shifting Stones tonight. Can't wait for the Warpwolf and Woldwarden since they are on order. Although If I can make this decision between druids and tharn and lord of the feast and white mane I can probably get that unit done before they come in so this discussion is definitely a help

@Malfred - not sure what you mean by snipping ability. Of the games I have played (two) targetting seemed unrestricted and so everyone can snipe the leader. Is there something I am missing here? Are unit leaders protected in some way. If not how do you protect a unit leader?

Just wanted to give an update on the progress so far.
First some observations about the game.
1. It is easy to have a fully painted force very quickly. Unlike like Warhammer WM and Hordes have fewer models and less repetition so its more fun to paint I think.
2. I am glad now that I started with Hordes instead of WM because the Risk management aspect is much more fun for me then the resource management was. Not that I don't like WM but just that I prefer the risk style more.
3. No matter how bad a game is looking your still not out. I know in a lot of games of warhammer or 40k the winner is sometimes decided in turn 2. In this game caster kill still wins the game (I have not played for objectives yet though)

I built out my 500 pts list using advice from here as well as the local crew and it looks like this.

Baldur (or Kruegar)
Gorax
Woldwarden
Warpwolf
Tharn Ravagers 4
shifting stones
sentry stone
Blackclad wayfarer

Seems to leave me some good options and be a fun list for learning the game. There is a learning curve with all the abilities you have to remember and I still forget a lot of them. My first game was with Krueger and he was fun the the table did not have any forests. For the next game I had 1 forest and I used Baldur and the sentry stones to generate more and that seemed to work much better.

I would have got the Shaman but the model is a little too gruesome for my taste so went with the wayfarer instead.


Thanks for the help!
Anyway, this game is a blast. I regret now that I am moving due to a job change so hopefully I can find another group.

Congrats on the good times.

Where are you moving to, might I ask.