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Russ has been in the eye of terror for 10,000 years, anyone else reckon hes been corrupted?

i doubt corrupted maybe he suffered some thing similar to the legion of the damned

Maybe a traitor guard codex will come out featuring Russ as the lead IC.

Maybe there is no legions codex because Russ has beaten them all ?

1hadhq wrote:Maybe there is no legions codex because Russ has beaten them all ?

I doubt it we all know that russ went off to search for thousand sons and hasnt been seen since, i read somewhere that they found his armour and weapons but not him, maybe he went heretic and didnt like his old armour, if ten out of twenty primarks went to chaos, your saying one can spend 10,000 years in the eye of terror and not turn to the dark powers?




P.S i love cheese

Only 9 primarchs were dumb enough to be tricked to follow some warp creatures and serve them.

Russ could use the "wulfen" inside every SW, so he don't needs armor and weapons.


I find it always amusing that CSM want to have another timescale if this is useful for them. When any other "player" enters the
warp, the same CSM demand those "player" to have to sit out the whole 10k years.

1hadhq wrote:Only 9 primarchs were dumb enough to be tricked to follow some warp creatures and serve them.

Russ could use the "wulfen" inside every SW, so he don't needs armor and weapons.


I find it always amusing that CSM want to have another timescale if this is useful for them. When any other "player" enters the
warp, the same CSM demand those "player" to have to sit out the whole 10k years.

You mean 9 primarks where smart enough to ditch the rules, become twice as powerful sit on a throne all day eating humans.
Whats the wulfen?
All the primarks came from the same DNA so i think if 9 can then whats left of the other 9 can, escially if your lost in the warp for 10k years!

Xav wrote:

1hadhq wrote:Only 9 primarchs were dumb enough to be tricked to follow some warp creatures and serve them.

Russ could use the "wulfen" inside every SW, so he don't needs armor and weapons.


I find it always amusing that CSM want to have another timescale if this is useful for them. When any other "player" enters the
warp, the same CSM demand those "player" to have to sit out the whole 10k years.

You mean 9 primarks where smart enough to ditch the rules, become twice as powerful sit on a throne all day eating humans.
Whats the wulfen?
All the primarks came from the same DNA so i think if 9 can then whats left of the other 9 can, escially if your lost in the warp for 10k years!

9 failures of a primarch choose to forfeit to conquer the galaxy successful alongside their brothers.
9 failures of a primarch choose to have small warbands instead of a Space Marine Legion.
9 failures of a primarch choose wrong and 4 of them are not sittin on any throne for sure.



The wulfen is the genecurse inbreed in any SW-marine. They have to overcome it once they rise from aspirant to space marine but
it is never completely cured. So the wulfen lurks in any SW. Most SW won't fall to this, but some turn into wulfen (half-breed wolf-man).
A lot of the 13th company had "the sign of the wulfen" and they followed Russ order to hunt the traitors and chased the fleeing
excuses for a space marine into the Eye of terror.
Since Russ is the primarch, he may be the source of the "wulfen" gene in any SW.

So what happened to all the Imperial Primarchs?
Thats right Dead or lost!
Lets not argue about that anymore.

Still he may be a half-wolf Primarch running around the eye of terror with some half-wolf space marines following him, i bet he's lost his mind, or he's a crazy wolfman now, and i think sitting on a throne allday eating humans would apeal alot to Russ.

1hadhq wrote:
9 failures of a primarch choose to forfeit to conquer the galaxy successful alongside their brothers.
9 failures of a primarch choose to have small warbands instead of a Space Marine Legion.
9 failures of a primarch choose wrong and 4 of them are not sittin on any throne for sure.

Conquer the galaxy for who? At the time of the Heresy, the Emporer had retired to his labs deep in the Imperial Palace, and had more or less handed over the fledgling Imperium to a bunch of human politicians.....this was one of the main reasons for the rebellion in the first place.....already those Politicians were becoming corrupt, as they were more interested in taking tithes from the planets that had already fallen to the "Crusade" as opposed to fighting tht long war.

Small warbands? A Chaos Primarch still rules over his entire Legion!!! The fact that some Legions split into warbands, alot of them ( Word Bearers, Iron Warriors, Night Lords and Alpha Legion for example) still maintain a Legion "attitude" and are disperesed throughtout the galaxy due to the machinations of their leaders.....its worth also considering that each "warband" could easily total more than an Imperial Chapter....who, by the same standard, are also genrally dispersed around the galaxy.....so who's worse off I wonder?

Of the original 9 that went renegade, Mortarion, Perturabo, Magnus, Angron, Fulgrim, Lorgar, Alpharius (or his Brother) are known to have survived as Daemon Princes.....of the Imperials, all are dead except Corax, Leman Russ, and Vulkan....who are evidentally lost....it is also supposed that Lion El'Jonson and Roboute Guilliman may return from their grevious wounds....but this is not canon. Again, who's really worse off here?

Delephont wrote:


Conquer the galaxy for who? At the time of the Heresy, the Emporer had retired to his labs deep in the Imperial Palace, and had more or less handed over the fledgling Imperium to a bunch of human politicians.....this was one of the main reasons for the rebellion in the first place.....already those Politicians were becoming corrupt, as they were more interested in taking tithes from the planets that had already fallen to the "Crusade" as opposed to fighting tht long war.

The legions turned not because they were commanded by politicians
They were infiltrated by chaos agents and their Warmaster (Horus) was a SM primarch and not a politician.
So to say, the command of the SM Legions was in the hands of a primarch.
The second in command on Terra was Malcador and he followed his Emperors orders as RAW.
The Traitors were not chosing greatness, they fell to their own fears and got betrayed by their "patrons".

Small warbands? A Chaos Primarch still rules over his entire Legion!!! The fact that some Legions split into warbands, alot of them ( Word Bearers, Iron Warriors, Night Lords and Alpha Legion for example) still maintain a Legion "attitude" and are disperesed throughtout the galaxy due to the machinations of their leaders.....its worth also considering that each "warband" could easily total more than an Imperial Chapter....who, by the same standard, are also genrally dispersed around the galaxy.....so who's worse off I wonder?

Maybe those ignorant CSM who can't accept their defeat? can't see their status as slaves to chaos where they have to follow orders
from creatures of the warp (Demons-politicians = a difference ?). Really this good?
Seems like those "legions" are no longer existant. Must be the casualitys in the long war.

Of the original 9 that went renegade, Mortarion, Perturabo, Magnus, Angron, Fulgrim, Lorgar, Alpharius (or his Brother) are known to have survived as Daemon Princes.....of the Imperials, all are dead except Corax, Leman Russ, and Vulkan....who are evidentally lost....it is also supposed that Lion El'Jonson and Roboute Guilliman may return from their grevious wounds....but this is not canon. Again, who's really worse off here?

Funny.
Mortarion - nothing known of his actions for 10k years. Must be on holidays since HH.
Fulgrim - entombed in a demon weapon, could be seen as hostage.
Perturabo - after his adventures with Dorn he went silent. So where is he? Maybe has his own iron toilet and is stuck there.
Angron - beaten at armageddon. Will get a trashing each time he shows up.
Alpharius - does he really exist? maybe a legionaire acts as "alpharius" again.
Lorgar - sits on his planet and scribbles pamphlets. Very scary.
Magnus - can he separate reality and lies? Could have some troubles with a spear in is eye.
No actual reference in BL or GW to traitor primarchs after M35.

OTOH

Lion - is said to return
Russ - is said to return
Corax - is said to return
Vulkan - is said to return
Khan - is said to return
Gulliman is said to be either dead or thought to recover
=> and its from GW so maybe canon

the primarchs are lazy get over it, i bet there bored, they killed off half there bro's and got nothing to do, and when the loyalist primarchs do return there get there **** beaten down by the chaos primarchs.

Xav wrote:the primarchs are lazy get over it, i bet there bored, they killed off half there bro's and got nothing to do, and when the loyalist primarchs do return there get there **** beaten down by the chaos primarchs.

beaten down by faulty excuses for a primarch? those creatures wanted to be demon-princes because they lacked in success as primarchs.

If any loyal Primarch returns, he will do this alongside his Emperor and we all know that the Emporer wipes the floor with any traitor.

yes escialy horus, he killed him easy.

1hadhq wrote:
The legions turned not because they were commanded by politicians
They were infiltrated by chaos agents and their Warmaster (Horus) was a SM primarch and not a politician.
So to say, the command of the SM Legions was in the hands of a primarch.
The second in command on Terra was Malcador and he followed his Emperors orders as RAW.
The Traitors were not chosing greatness, they fell to their own fears and got betrayed by their patrons

Yes, the Legions were infiltrated by "agents" of Chaos, as you say....but the growing power of petty politicians was one of the main themes those agents used to convert the mass of the Legions to their cause. If Chaos had simply walked in and said "Hey, lets kill the Emporer, and bath the galaxy in blood"...at the time, the majority of Legions and Primarchs would never have turned. Most of the renegade Legions felt that the Emporer had betrayed them and rejected them.....hence the bad feeling.

Moving on to present day, and the Imperium is in fact run by politicians and devious and twisted, power hungrey meglomaniacs, who think nothing of the billions of lives human or otherwise that inhabit the galaxy....in many ways, the Imperium is as bad as Chaos....better to be a slave to your own desires, than to be a slave to a dead Emporer and his foot soldiers of politicians.

Funny.
Mortarion - nothing known of his actions for 10k years. Must be on holidays since HH.
Fulgrim - entombed in a demon weapon, could be seen as hostage.
Perturabo - after his adventures with Dorn he went silent. So where is he? Maybe has his own iron toilet and is stuck there.
Angron - beaten at armageddon. Will get a trashing each time he shows up.
Alpharius - does he really exist? maybe a legionaire acts as "alpharius" again.
Lorgar - sits on his planet and scribbles pamphlets. Very scary.
Magnus - can he separate reality and lies? Could have some troubles with a spear in is eye.
No actual reference in BL or GW to traitor primarchs after M35.

OTOH

Lion - is said to return
Russ - is said to return
Corax - is said to return
Vulkan - is said to return
Khan - is said to return
Gulliman is said to be either dead or thought to recover
=> and its from GW so maybe canon

Are you aware of the fluff as it stands.....your statements about the Chaos Primarchs is miserably incorrect...according to present Canon.....Its true, the Chaos Primarchs don't play a big part in the WH40K universe.....however, thats not the point I was making.....the point I was making is that the Chaos Primarchs still control their entire Legions...and IF they decided to take a greater role in the goings on of the galaxy, they would command many thousands of Legion troops, as opposed to what a returned Imperial Primarch could command.....

Delephont wrote:
Yes, the Legions were infiltrated by "agents" of Chaos, as you say....but the growing power of petty politicians was one of the main themes those agents used to convert the mass of the Legions to their cause. If Chaos had simply walked in and said "Hey, lets kill the Emporer, and bath the galaxy in blood"...at the time, the majority of Legions and Primarchs would never have turned. Most of the renegade Legions felt that the Emporer had betrayed them and rejected them.....hence the bad feeling.

Moving on to present day, and the Imperium is in fact run by politicians and devious and twisted, power hungrey meglomaniacs, who think nothing of the billions of lives human or otherwise that inhabit the galaxy....in many ways, the Imperium is as bad as Chaos....better to be a slave to your own desires, than to be a slave to a dead Emporer and his foot soldiers of politicians.

Most legions were turned by their supreme command falling to chaos. So its not a "every marine had the feeling ...", but it is a
major drawback of some Legions to follow their primarchs unquestioned.The mass of the "normal" marines was told what they have to
believe and they accepted it when it was said by higher ranking commanders.
In fact, the HH brought not freedom, it just supported the politicians.
The ruinous powers stopped the legions to be a superior player in the galaxy and got a lot of victims with a burning imperium.
So the only winner was chaos. CSM lost the future as much as the loyalists, the SM were designed to be most effective when
combined and the HH separated the Marines into focused factions.
And a "warmaster" tried to ursurp the throne. The Emperor would have returned but he assumed Horus to be able to command in his
name, this mistake helped the arch-traitor Lorgar in his plans to bring humanity low. It was those WB that festered feelings of
beeing betrayed and rejected.
So the fanatics won and the Emperor is immobilized to do anything against it. :S

Are you aware of the fluff as it stands.....your statements about the Chaos Primarchs is miserably incorrect...according to present Canon.....Its true, the Chaos Primarchs don't play a big part in the WH40K universe.....however, thats not the point I was making.....the point I was making is that the Chaos Primarchs still control their entire Legions...and IF they decided to take a greater role in the goings on of the galaxy, they would command many thousands of Legion troops, as opposed to what a returned Imperial Primarch could command.....

I am sure of the background as it stands ( 2008). Your "present" canon should be quoted by yourself because i think i'm not wrong
about primarchs of traitor legions beeing reduced to sidenotes in BL books.

About those thousands of legionaires:

We had threads about the actual numbers of CSM on different forums and all of them ended with a size near 25.000 for all CSM.
Even if those posting in the threads are wrong and CSM have 250.000 members, this would not suffice.
An Imperial primarch may not command legions,but he would have access to all chapters formed with his geneseed.
Plus any willing chapter joining in a crusade to annihilate the traitors once and for all. Can't see the CSM autowin here.

'scuse me for being a dumb old smurf, but how, exactly, does all the rambling about the other Primarchs relate to the original question ?

Got carried away

1)GW won't change loyalities of the primarchs =this also is true for Russ
2)SW are resilent vs Chaos = proven by 13th Co (codex) = if done by troopers its easy for primarchs
3)Russ and his brethren are only myths in 5th Ed = timeline is M42 = decision about his fate not be known until next C: SW

but fluffwise realy is 9 out of 18 primarchs fell without going into the eye of terror, realy russ should be some crazy wolf-half demon by now?

I am sure of the background as it stands ( 2008). Your "present" canon should be quoted by yourself because i think i'm not wrong about primarchs of traitor legions beeing reduced to sidenotes in BL books.

About those thousands of legionaires:

We had threads about the actual numbers of CSM on different forums and all of them ended with a size near 25.000 for all CSM.
Even if those posting in the threads are wrong and CSM have 250.000 members, this would not suffice.
An Imperial primarch may not command legions,but he would have access to all chapters formed with his geneseed.
Plus any willing chapter joining in a crusade to annihilate the traitors once and for all. Can't see the CSM autowin here.


I totally agree, yes the Chaos Primarchs are definately side notes in the current playable fluff.....exactly the same as the Imperial Primarchs.

With regard to the "thousands of Chaos troops"......I'm not sure how, in that other thread, the participants managed to find a valid number for remaining chaos marines however, I wonder if that number counts the number of Chapters that have turned Chaos over the years, or the fact that the Chaos Legions have not sat back idly letting their brethren die, but have also been recruiting and creating new warriors for their cause...( See Iron Warriors novel, and recent fluff regarding the Red Corsairs )

@ Reaper6

Yes the conversation has morphed somewhat beyond the original point, however the original point was answered some time back, and the natural progression of the "discussion" has moved on. I don't see a need to detract from "adult" conversation to labour a single point, especially if the orginal poster has made no complaint about it.

Im finding this fluff battle rather amusing.

Again, excuse the dumb old smurf, but i was just pointing out that the topic had diverged considerably from the original question.

I've nothing against a discussion evolving, in fact I'm also amused at the "fluff war" in progress and, having not read as many of the novels as I would like, am finding it equally informative.

That said, the subject at hand was Leman Russ and the possibilities of him succumbing to the influences of Chaos, not the fates of the other Primarchs which, and I'm more than willing to stand corrected if it be the case, merits a thread of it's own.

Delephont wrote:
With regard to the "thousands of Chaos troops"......I'm not sure how, in that other thread, the participants managed to find a valid number for remaining chaos marines however, I wonder if that number counts the number of Chapters that have turned Chaos over the years, or the fact that the Chaos Legions have not sat back idly letting their brethren die, but have also been recruiting and creating new warriors for their cause...( See Iron Warriors novel, and recent fluff regarding the Red Corsairs )

The given number of 25.000 included only CSM with geneseed of their primarchs,thus only "old" legionaires from the heresy-era.
Any additional renegade or cross-breed (Dead sky black sun => IW: later warsmith .....? can't remember name yet) is not
counted then. But those Chaotics may need geneseed from other legions to recrut and finally will be no longer consistant of
"pure" ... marines , so the emperor wins by attrition.

So if we take the red corsairs and those traitors from the SW that forgot what Russ told his sons into this thread, then we may
come to the conclusion that GW has authors which ignore the background.
OK if a marine gets with the stiffness of the UM he may take his leave. But SW ? They are using clans to act as
wolf-packs and we know of the SW to feel like a family inside a grand company.
SW = heretics

Isn't Leman Russ, like, dead? Wasn't his big prophecy (about returning from the dead for the Wolftime) uttered while he "breathed his last?"

Pariah Press wrote: Isn't Leman Russ, like, dead? Wasn't his big prophecy (about returning from the dead for the Wolftime) uttered while he "breathed his last?"

Isn't gulliman DEAD for sure (codex SM) ? And Russ is still around.

Guilliman is only mostly dead, okay?

Pariah Press wrote:Guilliman is only mostly dead, okay?

We must go find Miracle Max! Oh wait, we don't have enough money and I don't know if he will view this as a worthy cause.

cause he wont its the primarch of the ultramarines!

I say we ditch Gulliman and bring back Sanguinius. He was the real badass of the Primarchs!

Leman Russ was pretty alright, I guess.....

Dreadwinter wrote:I say we ditch Gulliman and bring back Sanguinius. He was the real badass of the Primarchs!

Leman Russ was pretty alright, I guess.....

Agreed!


Did you know sanguinius beat up three bloodthirsters in the seige of the imperial palace(i think).