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Version 3.4

HQ: Yitrel of Iyaden (155)
HQ: Arutach w/ Fusion Gun, Power Weapon, Mandiblaster (100)

Elites: Fire Dragons x7 w/ Exarch + Tank Hunters (139)
Dedicated Transport : Wave Serpent w/ Twin Linked Shuri-Can’s + Star Engines + Vectored Engines (135)

Troops: Guardian Jetbike x3 w/ Shuri-Can (66)
Troops: Guardian Jetbike x3 w/ Shuri-Can (66)

Fast Attack: Warp Spiders x9 w/ Exarch + Dual Spinners (215)
Fast Attack: Warp Spiders x9 w/ Exarch + Dual Spinners (215)
Fast Attack: Warp Spiders x9 w/ Exarch + Dual Spinners (215)

Heavy Support: War Walkers x3 each w/ Dual Scatter Lasers (180)
Heavy Support: War Walkers x3 each w/ Dual Scatter Lasers (180)
Heavy Support: War Walkers x3 each w/ Dual Scatter Lasers (180)


Total Points : 1846

Tactics and Setup:
All units should start in reserve, War Walkers (If Needed!!) will Outflank, and the Warp Spiders will choose to Deepstrike. Because of the 2+ Reserve roll everything should show up second turn barring any crappy 1’s. This allows you to dictate where you will attack and throw your opponent into disarray due to having nothing to focus on.

1) Yirel will attach to the Fire Dragons in the serpent and possibly leave the squad after disembarking to either wipe a squad of troops (AOE CC Blast) or go tank hunt hunting (Singing Spear), it all depends on the circumstances.

2) The Other Arutach will attach to a squad of Fire Dragons in the transport.

3) Assuming there are some good targets, vehicle wise, then after disembarking (using when they come on the serpent will move 24 inches) Yirel will go after a tank or troops as mentioned above. If you feel confident then the regular Arutach will go after another one with his fusion gun, and the firedragons themselves will pick another target. After dropping its cargo the Wave Serpent can either maneuver to shield your troops from return fire or charge. If there is no immediate threat then try and tank shock as many units as you can or RAM with it for a possible total of 4 dead vehicles.

4) The Jetbikes will come on the table and if they have some good targets will snipe with their Shuriken Cannons, otherwise they will try and hide in LOS blocking terrain and come out when needed (usually for a late game capture)

5) Depending on if you want to shoot the walkers or Warp Spiders first it will dictate where you deep strike your spiders. Either way you will want to pick a target and deep strike them 7 inches exactly (to help reduce risk of fatal scatter) if they scatter away from your target 6+ inches use their second jump to escape to safety

6) Depending on setup and what enemy force you are fighting against you might need to use the spiders to perform some anti-tank (Guard come to mind) in this situation they have STR 6 guns so Back Armor and Side Armor are preferable. Please note that in 5th Ed AP – weapons CAN Pen a vehicle just with a -1.

7) A monolith is a great target for Yirel but even a Squad of fire dragons just need a5 to glance and a 6 to penetrate (STR 9 w/ Tank Hunter) so you just need a 5 or 6 to destroy it w/ +1 for AP 1 on the damage chart.Make sure you focus on your victim unit until it is dead or crippled. I usually stop shooting a unit once it fails its morale check for taking casualties from shooting.

8) Don’t be afraid to pass on a turn on shooting if you think a unit is going to be charged (a unit of Nob Bikers as a example) As a previous poster explained if you can kill all of the enemies troops (which is a highly probable event) then it turns into a game of cat and mouse. Do your best to dictate the course of the game.

9) Be sure to support every single unit ,with another, if possible, the Eldar do horrible when left by themselves.
10) Part of the beauty of this list is that ALL AT ONCE it gives your enemy tons of things to focus on, usually this tactic can win you the game. Be sure to play up the shock value.

11) This army sadly can’t win every time or everyone would play this army and 40k would collapse as a game!. However as some play testing as shown against 6 different armies it is HIGHLY effective and played correctly you should stand a chance against any setup, no gimmicks needed. Sometimes that chance is all that’s needed for a good player to turn a close call into victory.

... any balanced army would be ok against this since only Arutachs and fire dragons weapons have a better AP6 (yes Shuri-X are ap:5 still only 19 shots total) so IG and nids are going to get saves ... just start by killing the WW ...

if you've got tanks start by killing the fire dragons and Arutach ... then any armour 13 vehicals are fairly safe (death spinners have a 12" range so they can't DS miles away from their targets ... just dump a unit behind and line up you're tanks ... eldar are only S3 so they can't do any thing in CC to them

Any army with a lot of transports will be fine.

you would hose infantry hordes, but that is about it. any IG tank heavy army (or any tank heavy army for tha tmatter) would murder you.

Plus, if you are going this route, take eldrad and a bike mounted farseer to really take advantage of the warwalkers, which die to a stiff fart by the way.

how do you plan on keeping objectives? you only have 6 troops....

He plans on shooting everything off the board. A No Holds Barred sort of approach.

Imperial Guard would give this army fits.

What if you took min sized guardians and spamed wave serpents like so:

HQ:
Eldrad

Elite:
10 Scorpions, Exarch with Claw, Stalker

Troop:
4 x 10 Guardians with SL, Wave serpent with TL-BL

Heavy Support:
3 x 3 WarWalkers with Two SLs

Eldrad or indeed any Farseer / Warlock, will perform horribly in this list. It NEEDS to be a regular arutach and Yirel, anything else will send this list to a early grave. Although you could use 2 regular arutachs, although the army will loose a bit of versatility.

None of the mechanized lists I have fought so far or even the Gunline Guard have proven much of a match aganst this list (I tank shocked 4 units of guards off the table with my Serpent ). This one marines player was particularly surprised when He lost ( 2nd turn) his..

Land Raider
4 Rhinos
Predator

I love vehicles, they die so quickly, especially those with a back armor of 10

I can see where you're going with this list, and it's a fun model- but it needs a few big tweaks to be anything other than very, very fragile. The low-numbers Deep Strike thing is unlikely to do well unless your luck is perfect and your opponent fails to counterattack or prioritize his targets well.

Main Issue: You need Troops. Even if you have a lot of shooting and hope to table some opponents, you will not be able to outshoot, say, IG or Tau. The easiest way to improve your Troops coverage without altering the function of your army as-is would be to switch all those Warp Spider squads for jetbikes. You will gain superior mobility (turboboost is better than deep strike in anything but Apocalypse, and has the benefit of increasing your resilency) and will free yourself from needing 2 Autarchs for all those Deep Strikers.

Speaking of which, I strongly disagree that this army will benefit more from having 2 Autarchs than from having Eldrad. Guiding your Walker squads (plus psychic defense from Runes and Fortune on your most exposed Walkers) is better than imporving your coordination of a Deep Strike wave that has nothing to bail it out once the enemy recovers for a counterattack.

Fianlly, at least 2 common builds out there right now have AV14 all-round vehicles that anchor their strategy. Your single unit of Dragons, while great versus one hard target, will not survive to hit multiple vehicles. Switching your Spiders out for Bikes has the added benefit of allowing you to take a few Warlocks. The 'locks can add to your anti-tank capacity when necessary, although you give up a lot of anti-infantry fire to do so. But when the infantry are all inside Land Raiders or regenerating through a Monolith, you will need all the help that you can get.

Good start, rework it and try again.

I dont understand why people fail to realise here that Eldrad WILL NOT WORK here.

The man has already stated that the WW's will be coming in from reserves.

Eldrad cannot cast on them.

Compounding this fact, the WW's are ALSO outflanking for hopeful ranged shots against side and rear armour.

Again, Eldrad cannot cast on them.

Basically, the Walker squads cannot benefit from eldrad until turn 3 and this is only if the WW's DO NOT outflank or outflank so close to the players deployment side that they may be within the 6" reach of the power.

If the Walkers deploy so as for Eldrad to cast on them turn 3 they will be facing forward armour of predator's, Vindicators, and Leman Russes so they will not be able to shut them down. If those tanks are able to shoot (I.E. not shaken/stunned/weapon destroyed/destroyed) at the WW's Eldrad will be guiding 1 or two walkers in a squad, if any are left....its already been said here and everyone knows how fragile they are.

Eldrad sucks in this list, you're wrong. Point blank.

I do however agree that you need more troops...somehow.

Perhaps drop the Scatters to Shuricannons and minimize the Fire Dragon squad. (you dont need many to drop a tank) You gotta have something here for the 5 objective missions....6 troopers will not do it. I like the fact that all that str 6 comes on turn 2 hopefully robbing your opponent of 2 turns of shooting and catching them with pants down.

This list to me looks interesting even if it needs some work....honestly...its given me even a couple of Ideas for something to do with tournement eldar.

....2 Autarchs with a fast hitting army held in reserve...maybe with troops choices not using the +2 to come in keeping them safe for the grab.

The list looks quite interesting. It's a bit monodimensional with all those Warp Spiders and War Walkers. Deep striking is more risky in the new edition and thus some Warp Spiders might get lost in the warp when they arrive.

I agree with Deathshade that Eldrad is not the right caster of this list, if any. He's too immobile while the rest of the army floats.

there are a few key problems with this list.

fistly you havent paid for suprise assault on your exarchs, so at the moment there is no DSing you for.

even when you do pay (since that is the crux of your army) DSing withing 12" is very hard to do. if you put your warpspiders on the edge of the 12" then you stand a big chance of scattering away and not being able to fire on the turn you come in, but if you put them to close then you stand a chance of DSing within 1" of the enemy and losing your squad. i think its far to risky a tactic, especially when you only have 2, very vulnerable, scoring units.

which brings me onto my next point. there will be some games where there will be no LoS blocking terrain for your bikes to hide behind. even then fast armies will be able to flush them out into the open to get shot at. pinning your hopes on 6 T4 models is a sure way to lose games.

while i like the idea i think the execution could be better. all those warpspiders will do is DS in (if youre lucky), kill something with bad armour saves, and then get shot or assaulted to death. one unit of suicide firedragons isnt enough to deal with multiple tanks before they all die. your troops are too few. really the only thing thats good in this list are the outflanking warwalkers.

I think you need to drop one of the warp spider units for more jetbikers. Then add a bright lance or ML on the wave serpent. Maybe add a few warlocks with spear in the biker units to help rid objectives of contesting transports.

I don't see this as a top tier list but it could be fun.

fistly you havent paid for suprise assault on your exarchs, so at the moment there is no DSing you for.

Aren't warp spiders jump pack troops? Jump packers now have deepstrike as standard rules in 5ed. So surprise assault seems like another worthless upgrade like thornback, et al. That is from memory though, I dunno how the unit type is worded for warp spiders.

I play a Daemons of Chaos list. I think that this list would beat me on Kill Points, and draw on the other missions.

winterman wrote:

fistly you havent paid for suprise assault on your exarchs, so at the moment there is no DSing you for.

Aren't warp spiders jump pack troops? Jump packers now have deepstrike as standard rules in 5ed. So surprise assault seems like another worthless upgrade like thornback, et al. That is from memory though, I dunno how the unit type is worded for warp spiders.

duh! my mistake. you are indeed correct.

I said yes to the poll because this probably could beat my Tyranids. Although if I have second turn my reserves might be able to tear up your flankers.

Not enough scoring units and not enough anti-tank. The firedragons and tank hunter is useless against a monolith.

whitedragon wrote: The firedragons and tank hunter is useless against a monolith.

... not the best unit against monolith but tank hunter does now work against them (since it no longer gives a strenth bonus) ... AP:1 and tank hunter combine for a nice +2 on the damage chart, negating the -2 for glancing

Ragewind wrote:Eldrad or indeed any Farseer / Warlock, will perform horribly in this list. It NEEDS to be a regular arutach and Yirel, anything else will send this list to a early grave. Although you could use 2 regular arutachs, although the army will loose a bit of versatility.

None of the mechanized lists I have fought so far or even the Gunline Guard have proven much of a match aganst this list (I tank shocked 4 units of guards off the table with my Serpent ). This one marines player was particularly surprised when He lost ( 2nd turn) his..

Land Raider
4 Rhinos
Predator

I love vehicles, they die so quickly, especially those with a back armor of 10

How did he lose all of that armour by turn 2? I think you have 9 total units to roll for, which means everything will not show up by turn 2. You will usually have 1-2 units left back.

I voted that you would beat me only because I play nids.

AgeOfEgos wrote:

Ragewind wrote:Eldrad or indeed any Farseer / Warlock, will perform horribly in this list. It NEEDS to be a regular arutach and Yirel, anything else will send this list to a early grave. Although you could use 2 regular arutachs, although the army will loose a bit of versatility.

None of the mechanized lists I have fought so far or even the Gunline Guard have proven much of a match aganst this list (I tank shocked 4 units of guards off the table with my Serpent ). This one marines player was particularly surprised when He lost ( 2nd turn) his..

Land Raider
4 Rhinos
Predator

I love vehicles, they die so quickly, especially those with a back armor of 10

How did he lose all of that armour by turn 2? I think you have 9 total units to roll for, which means everything will not show up by turn 2. You will usually have 1-2 units left back.

Second turn my Wave Serpent carrying my Payload of HQ's and Firedragons screamed across the field hitting the Monolith for a Str 10 Shot, I Penetrated and rolled a 5. (He Blew my Shuri-Can off)

A unit of Warp Spiders deepstriked behind the Pred and blew it up with like 7 penetrating hits.

The War Walkers and the remaing unit of Spiders blew up his Transports. They then Warped away during the assualt turn.

After that he was without vehicles and had to chase me down.

Regwon nailed it, except for the Surprise Assault bit.

Ragewind, you're really screwed if you are facing anything with better than 12 on the sides and good infantry support. You simply don't have the numbers to deal with hordes of any kind, armor-heavy armies, or most extreme builds. However, it looks really fun, and will be a great game until you hit the armies that deal well with it, or anyone who has good range and castles. It pains me to say that, because it is an innovative build and it's cool that you are working it out to it's furthest possibility. If you really like how it works, ignore us min/max technicians, play well around its shortcomings, and post lots of batreps to show us how fun it is.

Deadshane1, you are correct that Eldrad will not work well with the build/implementation that Ragewind is suggesting. However, we are saying that that build needs to be modified in order to be successful, and that Eldrad will work with a modified build. Also, Eldrad is so generally badass for his points that he will work with pretty much anything. If Ragewind upped his Serpent-mounted Dragons to two units (lowering their numbers as you suggested to min/max well) and had Eldrad ride along in the Serpent, he would kick booty even just Fortuning the Serpents and tossing out Eldritch Storm (no LOS) as appropriate. If he rode along in a Serpent until he could be dropped off near the Walkers, even better. Heck, even if he stood in the bushes until one of the 3 Walker units arrived near him he would do well, Fortuning and Guiding them while Eldritch Storming or Mind Warring. Then there's the Runes, too, which will really help against Lash (which could be really, really deadly with the low numbers he's fielding). Eldrad is simply more useful than another Autarch in a workable build, especially if that Autarch supports a gameplan (mass Scout/DS S6 fire) that just won't deal well with hordes, heavy armor or Lash.

This would be a great list for a friendly game or a surprise game here or there, but it won't stand up to competitive play against a wide range of lists.

However, I had to vote carefully above, as this list _would_ do well against shooty Mech Eldar (my usual list).

It looks good on paper to have that many S6 shots per turn. However, the problem is that you eventually will not bring all those shots to bear in one turn.

(nothing to see here)

I think you may have gotten a bit confused, I Rammed the Land Raider with my Wave Serpent with a total STR of 10. I then rolled to penetrate and wrecked it.

Update to list:
Remove the SHuri-Cans from the Jetbikes
Add Vectored Engines to the Wave Serpent

For those who suggest Eldrad what would you remove to put him in? If we were to replace the regular autarch we would need 110 extra points. Also the same goes for the extra squad of 5 fire dragons, assuming we dropped down my current squad to 5 (we save 32 points) where would the extra 183 points come from for a new Wave Serpent and Squad?

The list as presented is min/maxed to get the best bang for my buck, if we start changing one aspect of the list the entire army has to change to reflect the difference in points. Although I would love some suggestions

ah you just said screamed and i filled in the blanks ... yes that would work though its a bit risky ...

I received a PM from another poster that copied my list, he said he had a complete victory over Chaos Deamons using a Mix of Khorne and Slanneash deamons. He made sure to kill both Greater deamons the turn they were available. He said going first is crucial vs Deamons. Enjoy!

Ragewind wrote:I received a PM from another poster that copied my list, he said he had a complete victory over Chaos Deamons using a Mix of Khorne and Slanneash deamons. He made sure to kill both Greater deamons the turn they were available. He said going first is crucial vs Deamons. Enjoy!

odd considering that if you have the first turn againt demons you lose a turn of much needed shooting. there is little reason not to give demons the first turn with this list.

Seriously, find a good Imperial Guard player and take a crack at him. Facing off against dozens of men with 4+ (or better) cover saves and heavy weapons to wipe your lightly armored walkers off the board, AV12+ side armor vehicles, and lots and lots of scoring troops will put this list down hard.

sourclams wrote:Seriously, find a good Imperial Guard player and take a crack at him. Facing off against dozens of men with 4+ (or better) cover saves and heavy weapons to wipe your lightly armored walkers off the board, AV12+ side armor vehicles, and lots and lots of scoring troops will put this list down hard.

The only two IG players I know play a heavy Mech List, I see what I can do on my end.