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Version 3.4

HQ: Yitrel of Iyaden (155)
HQ: Arutach w/ Fusion Gun, Power Weapon, Mandiblaster (100)

Elites: Fire Dragons x7 w/ Exarch + Tank Hunters (139)
Dedicated Transport : Wave Serpent w/ Twin Linked Shuri-Can’s + Star Engines + Vectored Engines (135)

Troops: Guardian Jetbike x3 w/ Shuri-Can (66)
Troops: Guardian Jetbike x3 w/ Shuri-Can (66)

Fast Attack: Warp Spiders x9 w/ Exarch + Dual Spinners (215)
Fast Attack: Warp Spiders x9 w/ Exarch + Dual Spinners (215)
Fast Attack: Warp Spiders x9 w/ Exarch + Dual Spinners (215)

Heavy Support: War Walkers x3 each w/ Dual Scatter Lasers (180)
Heavy Support: War Walkers x3 each w/ Dual Scatter Lasers (180)
Heavy Support: War Walkers x3 each w/ Dual Scatter Lasers (180)


Total Points : 1846

Tactics and Setup:
All units should start in reserve, War Walkers (If Needed!!) will Outflank, and the Warp Spiders will choose to Deepstrike. Because of the 2+ Reserve roll everything should show up second turn barring any crappy 1’s. This allows you to dictate where you will attack and throw your opponent into disarray due to having nothing to focus on.

1) Yirel will attach to the Fire Dragons in the serpent and possibly leave the squad after disembarking to either wipe a squad of troops (AOE CC Blast) or go tank hunt hunting (Singing Spear), it all depends on the circumstances.

2) The Other Arutach will attach to a squad of Fire Dragons in the transport.

3) Assuming there are some good targets, vehicle wise, then after disembarking (using when they come on the serpent will move 24 inches) Yirel will go after a tank or troops as mentioned above. If you feel confident then the regular Arutach will go after another one with his fusion gun, and the firedragons themselves will pick another target. After dropping its cargo the Wave Serpent can either maneuver to shield your troops from return fire or charge. If there is no immediate threat then try and tank shock as many units as you can or RAM with it for a possible total of 4 dead vehicles.

4) The Jetbikes will come on the table and if they have some good targets will snipe with their Shuriken Cannons, otherwise they will try and hide in LOS blocking terrain and come out when needed (usually for a late game capture)

5) Depending on if you want to shoot the walkers or Warp Spiders first it will dictate where you deep strike your spiders. Either way you will want to pick a target and deep strike them 7 inches exactly (to help reduce risk of fatal scatter) if they scatter away from your target 6+ inches use their second jump to escape to safety

6) Depending on setup and what enemy force you are fighting against you might need to use the spiders to perform some anti-tank (Guard come to mind) in this situation they have STR 6 guns so Back Armor and Side Armor are preferable. Please note that in 5th Ed AP – weapons CAN Pen a vehicle just with a -1.

7) A monolith is a great target for Yirel but even a Squad of fire dragons just need a5 to glance and a 6 to penetrate (STR 9 w/ Tank Hunter) so you just need a 5 or 6 to destroy it w/ +1 for AP 1 on the damage chart.Make sure you focus on your victim unit until it is dead or crippled. I usually stop shooting a unit once it fails its morale check for taking casualties from shooting.

8) Don’t be afraid to pass on a turn on shooting if you think a unit is going to be charged (a unit of Nob Bikers as a example) As a previous poster explained if you can kill all of the enemies troops (which is a highly probable event) then it turns into a game of cat and mouse. Do your best to dictate the course of the game.

9) Be sure to support every single unit ,with another, if possible, the Eldar do horrible when left by themselves.
10) Part of the beauty of this list is that ALL AT ONCE it gives your enemy tons of things to focus on, usually this tactic can win you the game. Be sure to play up the shock value.

11) This army sadly can’t win every time or everyone would play this army and 40k would collapse as a game!. However as some play testing as shown against 6 different armies it is HIGHLY effective and played correctly you should stand a chance against any setup, no gimmicks needed. Sometimes that chance is all that’s needed for a good player to turn a close call into victory.

Eldrad or indeed any Farseer / Warlock, will perform horribly in this list. It NEEDS to be a regular arutach and Yirel, anything else will send this list to a early grave. Although you could use 2 regular arutachs, although the army will loose a bit of versatility.

None of the mechanized lists I have fought so far or even the Gunline Guard have proven much of a match aganst this list (I tank shocked 4 units of guards off the table with my Serpent ). This one marines player was particularly surprised when He lost ( 2nd turn) his..

Land Raider
4 Rhinos
Predator

I love vehicles, they die so quickly, especially those with a back armor of 10

AgeOfEgos wrote:

Ragewind wrote:Eldrad or indeed any Farseer / Warlock, will perform horribly in this list. It NEEDS to be a regular arutach and Yirel, anything else will send this list to a early grave. Although you could use 2 regular arutachs, although the army will loose a bit of versatility.

None of the mechanized lists I have fought so far or even the Gunline Guard have proven much of a match aganst this list (I tank shocked 4 units of guards off the table with my Serpent ). This one marines player was particularly surprised when He lost ( 2nd turn) his..

Land Raider
4 Rhinos
Predator

I love vehicles, they die so quickly, especially those with a back armor of 10

How did he lose all of that armour by turn 2? I think you have 9 total units to roll for, which means everything will not show up by turn 2. You will usually have 1-2 units left back.

Second turn my Wave Serpent carrying my Payload of HQ's and Firedragons screamed across the field hitting the Monolith for a Str 10 Shot, I Penetrated and rolled a 5. (He Blew my Shuri-Can off)

A unit of Warp Spiders deepstriked behind the Pred and blew it up with like 7 penetrating hits.

The War Walkers and the remaing unit of Spiders blew up his Transports. They then Warped away during the assualt turn.

After that he was without vehicles and had to chase me down.

I think you may have gotten a bit confused, I Rammed the Land Raider with my Wave Serpent with a total STR of 10. I then rolled to penetrate and wrecked it.

Update to list:
Remove the SHuri-Cans from the Jetbikes
Add Vectored Engines to the Wave Serpent

For those who suggest Eldrad what would you remove to put him in? If we were to replace the regular autarch we would need 110 extra points. Also the same goes for the extra squad of 5 fire dragons, assuming we dropped down my current squad to 5 (we save 32 points) where would the extra 183 points come from for a new Wave Serpent and Squad?

The list as presented is min/maxed to get the best bang for my buck, if we start changing one aspect of the list the entire army has to change to reflect the difference in points. Although I would love some suggestions

I received a PM from another poster that copied my list, he said he had a complete victory over Chaos Deamons using a Mix of Khorne and Slanneash deamons. He made sure to kill both Greater deamons the turn they were available. He said going first is crucial vs Deamons. Enjoy!

sourclams wrote:Seriously, find a good Imperial Guard player and take a crack at him. Facing off against dozens of men with 4+ (or better) cover saves and heavy weapons to wipe your lightly armored walkers off the board, AV12+ side armor vehicles, and lots and lots of scoring troops will put this list down hard.

The only two IG players I know play a heavy Mech List, I see what I can do on my end.

Savnock wrote:I would suggest dropping all of the Spiders and one Autarch, substituting in Eldrad and more jetbikes, as well as dropping the Dragons to 5 with no Exarch and buying a second Serpent. You will have more than enough points, even if you only double the number of jetbikes that you have.

And you're right, VE is a good idea on a Serpent containing troops with 12" range guns.Star Engines are less useful, though. However, dropping shuricannons from a bike unit is a bad idea. They're much more versatile and effective with the S6 shots.

That's a complete retooling of the list, rather than a modification. It also changes how the list operates at its core.

The case was made that the Jetbikes will be mainly used as a distraction rather than a reliable unit for combat, while the Tank and the units it carries are far more valuable, especially since the Wave Serpent will typically RAM on the 2nd turn. Giving it vecored engines increases the chance to live from 50% to 66-70% on a Pen Hit.
Since in most of my playtesting at least 1 unit of bikes is removed from play by turn 3, it was found to be a waste of points to give them a gun they might not even fire.

The Exarch is also needed, not only for the increased chance to hit (2+), but for the fact that his gun can be switched out with a Flamer for free to help aganst Horde (like Nids or IG), but Tank Hunters are absolutely vital. Turning a narrow escape into a sure death for the target tank. Its also been detirmed that Tank Hunters will work on a Monolith, that right there is more of a reason to take a Exarch since it effectively makes the Fusion Guns STR 9.

Savnock wrote:Yes, it is a complete retooling. You have next to no troops and no anti-heavy-vehicle weapons, so a major change (or complete retooling) is needed. You need troops to win, especially because your extreme build simply cannot count on tabling many opponents. Jetbikes serve a very similar function to the Spiders that you had in before, except they lack Deep Strike. Turbo-boost can generally make up for this- plus with the shuricannons, bikes have better range.

The rest is gravy, really. Take all that or leave it as you will- but without Troops, you will not win.

I applaud your dedication to trying out your build extensively, but suggest that you play this list competitively if you really want to see its shortcomings highlighted. Afterwards, you have this thread for improvement suggestions.

I hate to break it to you but the Eldar have gak for troops (Except for maybe Avengers), I realized this long ago. While the Guardian Jetbikes are Useful they are not game winners, even with the Shurican on them they will typically hit and most probably wound with only 1 shot. The simple fact that they lack deepstrike is what gimps this list if you were to include them. If you can show me a mechanical reason why the Jetbikes would be better served instead of Warp SPiders I would like to see it.

While I guarantee you Eldrad is Teh Sexy he sucks horribly for this list. Even if you replaced the majority of the Warpsiders with Bikers Eldrad still does gak, He is a Farseer and thereby a Supporter, he will have prescious little to support in a army specc'ed like this.

If you had to ABSOLUTELY have some more troops them I suggest "Heavily" Pathfinders, since you seem to only want them to Capture objectives then these little guys are your friend.

However having something static (Even with 36' guns) it will only be a determent to your overall goal.

Squig_herder wrote:Is this a fun list or a real comp list? if its fun then run with it

Mostly 1, a bit of 2.

So far I am at 11-0-6 with this list against many different armies with radically different setups. If I can improve my skill handling this army then I can see it going for competitive play.

Savnock wrote:

Ragewind wrote:If you can show me a mechanical reason why the Jetbikes would be better served instead of Warp SPiders I would like to see it.

Check out the part of the rulebook where it talks about scoring troops. If your opponent kills your 6 bikes, your list simply cannot win 2/3 of standard scenarios.

I am not suggesting that you take Pathfinders, obviously. You have a mobile list, not a static one. I am suggesting more jetbikes, because you need to score and they are the Troops closest to the way your list functions.

Point-for-point, jetbikes will do just as well as the Spider against MEQ infantry, and have longer range, turbo-boost for better saves against heavy artillery, plasma etc., can retreat faster if needed, and most importantly they score.

Frankly, I feel a bit slowed for arguing with you in your favor. I think you're off on the wrong track, you think you're fine. Having enough mobile scoring troops choices is the point of contention. 'Nuff said.

You have a point yo I will give the jetbikes a try this friday, however I must point out (if you haven't figured it out yet) that the jetbikes in my current list are simply distractions from the bigger picture, I don't particularly care if they die or not.

Dorfdorf wrote:

sourclams wrote:
His entire point is that 2/3 of all games that you will ever play, ever, are objective missions that rely on troops holding objectives to win. If you have no troops left, all that you can do is tie unless you shoot the entire opposing team off the board. All you can do is tie. If Napoleon had sex with General Patton, Bernard Montgomery, George Washington, Robert E. Lee, Saladin, Marneus Calgar, and their hate baby came out double fisting MegaGulps of Brawndo the Thirst Mutilator, the best you can possibly do is tie.

That's why everyone is saying 'not enough troops'.

If only every forum post were this entertaining.

Ya know if my all comers Eldar List and all comers Necron list, I only feature 2 squads of Min Size troops. Never once Have I had a problem.

As a example my Necron List is

Deceiver
Warriors x20
Destroyers x15
Heavy Destroyers x6

comes out to a little less than 1850

My warriors usually never leave my deployment zone, and the second someone coughs at them they go to ground (usually in cover). Never once had a problem.

sourclams wrote:Why are you even posting anymore? You've found something that works for you in your gaming circle, and you don't seem to be huge on the feedback that people are responding with.

If you've found the square pegs that fit your square hole, then bully. Enjoy your games and have fun, nuff said.

Mainly because I enjoy discussion, also because someone may come along with new insights previously unmentioned. Posting to a thread that is still alive is better than resurrecting a dead one.