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I just wanted to make sure I wasn't in the wrong here.

I played a game against Marines and during assault my nobs wounded a tac squad of 10 6 times. He wounded me 3.that put his leadership at 6 (If i remember right). He took his leadership check and failed it. His unit was forced to run, and I moved my units up to stay within 6 inches of him to prevent him from auto rallying. I continued this until the units were forced off the table edge and destroyed.

A marine player I had previously played told me this was valid and I'm wondering if what I did was legit because as good as it feels to run some Marines off the board (I did the same thing to some Termies that same game ), I'm not looking to cheat anybody.

Oh and also, how does this effect things like combat tactics where the Marine player chooses to fail the test?

You played this correctly. And They Shall Know No Fear permits a squad to: (1) automatically pass tests to regroup, (2) regroup if reduced to less than half strength, (3) act normally when they regroup (can move normally and don't count as moving unless they move), and (4) suffer from No Retreat if caught in a Sweeping Advance.

All other rules about regrouping, such as no regrouping if there are enemies within 6", or the unit is not in coherency, apply.

If such a unit is falling back, do not assault them! This will allow them to automatically regroup.

Yea that's what I thought.. I had to learn the hard way because the first player that I learned that from saved his Master Librarian guy that way when I could've almost ran him off the table. The same librarian that went off someplace to help almost roll the rest of my army.

Woo! Awesome! The match is now cemented as a clean victory in my mind! =)

But what about combat tactics?

If a unit chooses to fail their morale test instead of opting to roll, do the same rules apply where they roll initiative for sweeping advance and depending on that result either suffer No Retreat or roll 2d6 to find distance and then possibly later regroup?

I imagine it to be something along those lines. It's almost like a really extended version of hit and run.

Combat Tactics allows them to automatically fail the Ld test. It doesn't change the way any other rule works.

Ld9/10 with ATSKNF is the best leadership setup any unit can have. Fearless is considerably worse than this. The only exception being the rediculously unlikely 11s/12s on pin tests and 25% casualty morale tests, but even then the results are rarely devastating.

When failing combat, Morale checks are taken. Does the SM codex say they can choose to pass leadership or morale checks? Or is my interpretation wrong?

I hear a lot about people advising to know the differences between the two checks, but I honestly haven't played long enough to know. I just know that Morale checks tend to be associated with losing unit in assualt (losing combat) and shooting (losing 25% or more)?

breadhat wrote:When failing combat, Morale checks are taken. Does the SM codex say they can choose to pass leadership or morale checks? Or is my interpretation wrong?

They don't get to choose to pass anything.

The can choose to fail morale checks.

I just know that Morale checks tend to be associated with losing unit in assualt (losing combat) and shooting (losing 25% or more)?

Morale checks are a specific type of Leadership test, generally taken for suffering casualties, being run over by a Tank, or losing an Assault.

Ah my mistake.. that's what I meant. =P

Thanks for the clarification! ^_^

Combat tactics is mainly in the game so one can choose to fall back on the opponents turn, hopefully out run them, regroup and charge back in or move off to another target on their turn.

Remember that you have to fall back further than 6" away from your enemy to regroup, as well as escape the Sweeping Advance.

Yes, but it's an awesome tactic against Terminators, who may not sweeping advance.

Also note that if the Marines do not escape the sweeping advance, then they count as fearless (and take hits) for that turn, so they have no chance of just being wiped out.

They could be wiped out by cumulative No Retreat! wounds.

1st off, allow me to appologize for the necro-post, but I was always of the mind its better to add on to a topic which is already open, If thats not the case here I will remember that for later.. thanks for the non-flamy-ness!

I have a semi- related question and want to make sure i understand the mechanics of the situation:

situation 1: marines lose combat against someone they can choose to fail a morale check, at which point they attempt to retreat, d6 is rolled by both the attacker and the person attempting top run away, if the marines have higher d6 + ld than the attacker they break off combat and start the next turn as normal, not in retreat, not falling back. regrouped and ready to go?

situation 2: same as situation 1 however my ld+d6 is not higher than the attackers, therefore we are caught and NO RETREAT!! is used and i take a number of wounds equal to how many I failed the test by correct?

if so this completely changes how I haev been playing this rule and would really help me not get my head kicked in by genestealers

2 corrections:

1. it's Initiative +d6, rather than Ld

2. you take a number of wounds equal to the number you lost the *combat* by, rather than the roll.

As was said above - it is Initiative + D6 that you compare, and you then take a number of wounds (with normal armour saves, so think of them as "wounding hits") equal to the amount you lost combat by.

Johnnyboy955 wrote:situation 1: marines lose combat against someone they can choose to fail a morale check, at which point they attempt to retreat, d6 is rolled by both the attacker and the person attempting top run away, if the marines have higher d6 + ld than the attacker they break off combat and start the next turn as normal, not in retreat, not falling back. regrouped and ready to go?

Only if after the fall-back move they are more then 6" away from all enemies.

Basically it works like this. If you wish to CHOOSE to fail, instead of rolling the dice, pretend that you rolled an 11 or 12. Everything else works exactly the same.

nosferatu: "and you then take a number of wounds (with normal armour saves, so think of them as "wounding hits") equal to the amount you lost combat by. "

does this happen after the combat or if I FAIL to get away?

ugh maybe this not understanding of the fundamental rules is why i can't win lolz

Johnnyboy:

OK, here's a sample combat:

10 man Tac Squad takes 4 unsaved wounds (reducing them to 6 models) and only deals 2 wounds to Nobs Mob. The Tac Squad loses combat by 2. So, they can now choose to fail their ld test and (potentially) break from combat or they can roll ld-2 and try to stay in combat. If they stay, nothing happens.

If they fail (by either means), you then check d6+init to see if they are caught in a Sweeping Advance. If they are caught, instead of being swept they become fearless and suffer No Retreat! wounds equal to the amount they lost combat by (in this case 2).

If they don't get caught in a Sweeping Advance by rolling higher on the d6+init, they instead run 2d6" from combat and the nobs consolidate d6". Let's pretend the Tac Squad rolls 8" and the nobs roll 3", in that case, the Tac Squad would be w/in 6" of the nobs and would not be allowed to regroup. The squad would continue to fall back on the next turn.

If the nobs would have rolled 1" or the Tac Squad could have put more than 6" between them and the nobs, then the Tac Squad could auto regroup.

EDIT: Clarity and typos.

Jonhyboy - if you FAIL to get away from a Sweeping Advance, you would normally be destroyed. ATSKNF kicks in and says instead of being destroyed, you suffer No Retreat! - so it is after failing to get away frmo Sweeping Advance (Init+D6 rolloff)

Johnnyboy955 wrote:
situation 1: ... if the marines have higher d6 + ld than the attacker they break off combat and start the next turn as normal, not in retreat, not falling back. regrouped and ready to go?

The above examples cover this, but I wanted to highlight what you said.

If the marines are falling back, they are still falling back until they rally. So if you charge, and lose, and fall back. The marines are falling back for the rest of your turn, falling back during the Nid turn, and falling back until you go to move them during your turn. Once you go to move them they need to Rally. If they get a chance to take the morale test, they will pass it automatically, but they don't get a chance to take it if enemies are within 6".

if so this completely changes how I haev been playing this rule and would really help me not get my head kicked in by genestealers

Bwahaha... nothing will save you from genestealers... now be a good little marine and just jump your biomass into the digestion pool....

Few things suck more in this game than invoking Combat Tactics and failing to get far enough away...

Yup. That's why you should lock a unit in place with another unit of your own before attempting to withdrawal an squad using Combat Tactics. Dreadnoughts are great for this role because they don't suffer from No Retreat.

Dreadnougths cant lock units can they? I thought vehicles could not be locked in combat.


...edit: unless you meant block.

Vehicles cannot, walkers can because they have weapon skill.

ah, it seems i have been playing dreadnought combat wrong. I was treating them as normal vehicles.

Doh.

zatchmo wrote:Johnnyboy:

OK, here's a sample combat:

10 man Tac Squad takes 4 unsaved wounds (reducing them to 6 models) and only deals 2 wounds to Nobs Mob. The Tac Squad loses combat by 2. So, they can now choose to fail their ld test and (potentially) break from combat or they can roll ld-2 and try to stay in combat. If they stay, nothing happens.

If they fail (by either means), you then check d6+init to see if they are caught in a Sweeping Advance. If they are caught, instead of being swept they become fearless and suffer No Retreat! wounds equal to the amount they lost combat by (in this case 2).

If they don't get caught in a Sweeping Advance by rolling higher on the d6+init, they instead run 2d6" from combat and the nobs consolidate d6". Let's pretend the Tac Squad rolls 8" and the nobs roll 3", in that case, the Tac Squad would be w/in 6" of the nobs and would not be allowed to regroup. The squad would continue to fall back on the next turn.

If the nobs would have rolled 1" or the Tac Squad could have put more than 6" between them and the nobs, then the Tac Squad could auto regroup.

EDIT: Clarity and typos.

Excellent example, Zatchmo.