Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm trying to figure out how I want to model my leftover chaos troop bitz, and work those into a list, so I'm wondering which configuration would better ...

5 Squads of Troops:

7 Bezerkers inc Champion with PowerFist & Rhino
7 Bezerkers inc Champion with PowerFist & Rhino
7 Plague Marines with 2 Melta Guns inc Champion with PowerFist & Rhino
7 Plague Marines with 2 Melta Guns inc Champion with PowerFist & Rhino
7 Plague Marines with 2 Melta Guns inc Champion with PowerFist & Rhino

4 Squads of Troops:

10 Bezerkers inc Champion with PowerFist & Rhino
10 Bezerkers inc Champion with PowerFist & Rhino
10 Plague Marines with 2 Melta Guns inc Champion with PowerFist & Rhino
10 Plague Marines with 2 Melta Guns inc Champion with PowerFist & Rhino

... both these selections come out to within 8 points of eachother.

Which way do you think would be more effective in most games? More squads or bigger squads?

I used to run the bigger squads. But since they are all fearless, then benefits from running a larger squad aren't really that beneficial. On the other hand, that extra squad is 2 extra special weapons, an extra squad of guys to maneuver with, and extra champ with a powerfist....

I'd definitely go for larger squads, more staying power and higher impact. Small units don't cut it.

I should clarify I was speaking about the plague marines. I play a all nurgle army.

With Killpoints in mind I would go for bigger squads, but it seems that a lot of people don't worry too much about it (KPs)

the big advantages you gain from large squads are

1) More staying power (harder to force break tests, les likely to run under 50%)
2) Fewer kill points
3) more bodies to spread static costs around (like icons)

the big advantages of more squads are

1) Greater flexibility (you can shoot/assault more things at once)
2) Higher number of special weapons/Champions
3) More scoring units (if troops)

since your troops are fearless and dont really have any static costs then you can discount the 1 and 3 advantages of having larger squads. as far as kill points are concerned, gaining an extra 2 KP is a low price to pay for what you are gaining. for cult marines more squads are better (up to a certain point. if you are gaining more than 3KP you need to have another think)

these werent cult marines, however, i would suggest larger squads. raptors, for example, are best taken in 15+ sizes.

Nice summary, Regwon.
Cult Marines can indeed be taken in smaller units, but I would stay away from units less than 8 unless it's a purely shooty unit (6 NM with blastmaser) staying in the back field.

IMHO, one important advange of bigger squads that you have missed is that your special weapons, your captains/champions or IC are more protected in them. If you have 19 guys of the same type, and 1 with special weapon, you need to receive 19 wounds (before saving throws, I mean) to be FORCED to make a roll with your Special Weapon.

This works the other way. It's not the same to shoot with a 20 guys squad, than shooting with 2x10 guys. If you shoot with 20 you have more chances to force your opponent to make some saving throws with ICs, or Special Weapons.

If I'm not wrong this apply equally to the shooting phase and the CC one.

hmmm.. This is a tough one.. However, in my opinion it depends on a number of things what the TO is looking for.

Are you looking to keep your troops in Rhinos?
What is the Point level of the game?
What is the rest of your list looking like?

If you are planning on keeping them in rhinos means that their max troop size will be 10. In that case, 7~10 PMs I think they extra three PMs are a waste.. Its rare that someone breaks up my PMs, unless they running alot of plasma or PWs. Zerkers are ugly in groups of 10.. however in most cases if 10 zerkers get the charge off vs 10 unit squad.. the Zerkers will wipe them up and it almost will be overkill (unless you charging greater than MEQs).. Not sure if that will be a good or bad thing.. Because they will be open to catch a round of fire in the next turn.. I like to finish off my opponent in their turn in 5th.

Point Level, are you planning on using your troops as your primary force? Like in a 1750 game, Those troops you listed above will eat up a HUGE portion of your points.. so maybe more squads will be viable, more flexibility, more options, more special weapons, etc. If this makes up most of your list, KPs still show be mid to low KP numbers. If you are planning to play primary 2500 games, I would go with squads of 10.

The way I run my lists I use my Troops to complement the rest of my list and visa versa. Like my Landraider going balls to the wall towards the opponent or their objective will give my Rhinos some breathing room.. because the LR will catch hell and be primary focus.. if they focus on my Rhinos... guess what my LR is going to drop off a very nasty package. Just like chess, force your opponent to make tough decisions.. I digress..

I can see it either or, but depends on play style.. I can see more staying power with larger squads, however, I can see wasted wounds and target saturation with more squads.

Toss up..

Mausama

Maybe I should have mentioned this would be for games of 2000+ points. The rest of the list would most likely include a couple Daemon Princes and a half dozen Obliterators, which should attract more enemy fire to them.

I really appreciate all the responses, and feel like less of a noob seeing vet players make good arguments both ways.

With them all being Fearless, and no purchased marks, an extra unit sounds best; until I notice that I'm losing 5 bodies off the field. (35 vs 40) I guess for my specific situation it raises the question are 2 Meltaguns + Powerfist > 5 Cult Marines? ( +6 Bezerkers but -1 PM)

I guess for my specific situation it raises the question are 2 Meltaguns + Powerfist > 5 Cult Marines? ( +6 Bezerkers but -1 PM)

Well, I'll never use normal CSM troops. Cult Marines are much better; the fearless bonus is priceless.