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As a compatison, here are the top 10 armies at GWs GTs:

These include soft scores like painting and sportsmanship.

The Las Vegas GT
1. Orks
2. Eldar
3. CSM
4. Witch Hunters
5. Tyranids
6. Tyranids
7. Space Marines
8. Eldar
9. Demons
10. Demons

Chicago GT
1. Orks
2. CSM
3. Orks
4. Eldar
5. Demons
6. Black Templar
7. Orks
8. Tyranids
9. Necrons
10. Black Templar


Baltimore GT
1. Orks
2. Orks
3. Demons
4. Tyranids
5. Demons
6. Orks
7. CSM
8. CSM
9. Demonhunters
10. Tyranids


UK Heat #1
1. Orks
2. Eldar
3. CSM
4. Orks
5. CSM
6. Demons
7. Orks
8. Eldar
9. Tau
10. DA

UK Heat #2
1. Tau
2. Dark Angels
3. Orks
4. Tyranids
5. Orks
6. Tyranids
7. Chaos Marines
8. Blood Angels
9. Orks
10. Eldar

UK Heat #3
1. Chaos Marines
2. Eldar
3. Nids
4. Orks
5. Daemons
6. Chaos Marines
7. Orks
8. Eldar
9. Chaos Marines
10. Chaos Marines


Note:
The US GTs have a Massacre/Massacred, Major Win/Major Loss, Tie and 1750 Points
The UK Heats are on a W/T/L and 1500 Points

Holy Crap! Dark Angels took second in the UK Heat 2? Tau took first??

I want to see those lists!

Ozymandias, King of Kings

is it just me or does the UK GT's seem a little bit more open than the US one, is it the 1500pt limit do you think?

It's the win/loss thing. Without scalable victories, some armies become better.

What Centurian99 said.

For example: When Tau win, they will almost never get massacres, but end up with a minor victory. So in the UK system they get the same amount of points for a win as the Ork player that tabled someone. On the other hand, in the US GTs Tau do poorly because a minor win is a lot less points than a massacre.

The UK system opens it up more for armies that can win, but can't get massacres.

So you can look at it this way, the UK results tell you want armies can win, the US results tell you what armies can massacre. Take a look at Eldar, they do much better in the UK than they do in the US. Also Tyranids do better in the US than the UK. If you take out the soft scores, and just list them by battle points, the contrast between what armies do better will be more pronounced (but you will still have your heavy hitters of CSM and Orks in the mix).

Blackmoor wrote: If you take out the soft scores, and just list them by battle points, the contrast between what armies do better will be more pronounced (but you will still have your heavy hitters of CSM and Orks in the mix).

I say you do that, Allan! (cause I am too lazy to do the work) ;-)

Interesting!

How it read to me:

Orks
Something else
Orks
Orks
Who cares
Orks
Lash
Orks
Orks
Goblins
Just Kidding
ORKS
...

Looter Spam and Deathrollers FTW eh?

What's the difference in points between the UK and US GTs? Also, why aren't other countries (and Ard Boyz) included?

I'm telling you this ork tournament thing isn't as bad as rational people are making it out to be. If you don't want to lose to orks there's something very easy you can do at a tournament: Lose your first game! You're practically guaranteed some fun times against all manner of weird army-lists scraping the bottom of the barrel. Just don't fly too high Icarus!

Moz wrote:I'm telling you this ork tournament thing isn't as bad as rational people are making it out to be. If you don't want to lose to orks there's something very easy you can do at a tournament: Lose your first game! You're practically guaranteed some fun times against all manner of weird army-lists scraping the bottom of the barrel. Just don't fly too high Icarus!

Or you can play the points game. Instead of maxing out at 20 your first game you let yourself get a 19. That way you run just under the radar of the nastiest lists. You then sweep into first place at the end with a phenominal paint score and sportsmanship score.

Of course this requires that you be able to paint, hmm oh well.

wow, not a single guard entry on there.

Moz wrote:I'm telling you this ork tournament thing isn't as bad as rational people are making it out to be. If you don't want to lose to orks there's something very easy you can do at a tournament: Lose your first game! You're practically guaranteed some fun times against all manner of weird army-lists scraping the bottom of the barrel. Just don't fly too high Icarus!

I tried this. Lost horribly to nidzilla in round 1, only to face... 200 orks in round two.

... big bugs... or Orks... hmmm... Thats like "do you want to eat glass or just razors... your choice".

It's almost as if GW don't care about play balance and just made up whatever crap they thought sounded good for the latest rules and codex.

I placed 10th with my nids at Baltimore and faced 4 MEQ and one IG. I had hoped to face an ork horde. I packed in 6 Barbed stranglers for the little buggers. The Nid's are holding there own with the right build and have the oldest dex of the "top" tier armies.

wynnstudio

And now you all know what I have been saying. I do play Tau and I do not go to GT. Why should I waste the money with an army that is not top tier.


I would love to go to GT. Now I just have to go to GT in Europe.

Blackmoor wrote:As a compatison, here are the top 10 armies at GWs GTs:

UK Heat #3
1. Chaos Marines
2. Eldar
3. Nids
4. Orks
5. Daemons
6. Chaos Marines
7. Orks
8. Eldar
9. Chaos Marines
10. Chaos Marines

The 5th placed Daemons were actually Chaos Marines (incidently the only one to have only 1 lash, the rest had 2). The rest is correct. The Eldar in 8th are mine.

I much preferred playing the rulebook missions as opposed to playing mission orientated VP bashes, but was horribly low on VPs as a result of not trying to kill enough.

Ozymandias wrote:Holy Crap! Dark Angels took second in the UK Heat 2? Tau took first??

I want to see those lists!

Ozymandias, King of Kings

It was DW/RW combo... brilliant player!

HQ:
Sammael (jetbike)
Belial (with lightning claws)

Troops:
Deathwing squad, assault cannon apothecary and power sword sergeant
Deathwing squad, 3 pairs of lightning claws (one with cyclone) and 2 thunder hammers + storm shields
Deathwing squad, heavy flamer, one chain-fist and sergeant with lightning claws
Ravenwing attack squadron, apothecary, 2 plasma guns, sergeant with power sword
Multimelta attack bike
Ravenwing attack squadron, meltagun, flamer, sergeant with power sword

G

Oh you silly tournament players with your rankings and your orks and your pts values!

usernamesareannoying wrote:wow, not a single guard entry on there.

No surprises there, the cover, CC and especially morale rules being what they are now.

Don't forget 2 kill point games.

Indeed, what was I thinking!

I know what you were thinking.

G

IIRC, the Tau player was said to have:

3 hammerheads
2 squads of kroot
1 squad of FCW with 'fish
deathrain suits with flamers

I don't know the amounts, just this was the rough list provided at ATT.

SOB made top 5 in Vegas, Chicago had 2 BT armies in the top 10, and Baltimore had Daemonhunters. Interesting.

What would be interesting to know is what percentage of other players brought the various 'top tier' armies (i.e. orks, csm, nids, eldar). If 70% brought those lists (instead of 70% bringing IG, Tau, Dark Eldar, etc.), might that have an affect on the top 10? In other words, how much of this is proof that those lists are top tier, and how much of it is self-fulfilling?

that DA army does sound rather nice, i would be very very tempted to do that, sounds good fun to play

syr8766 wrote:SOB made top 5 in Vegas, Chicago had 2 BT armies in the top 10, and Baltimore had Daemonhunters. Interesting.

What would be interesting to know is what percentage of other players brought the various 'top tier' armies (i.e. orks, csm, nids, eldar). If 70% brought those lists (instead of 70% bringing IG, Tau, Dark Eldar, etc.), might that have an affect on the top 10? In other words, how much of this is proof that those lists are top tier, and how much of it is self-fulfilling?

I really think its more the player then the army. After playing at the GT i realized that I knew the rules better then most of the people I played. Moz was on par with me (I didn't fully understand feel no pain and what counted as not getting an armor save) since I think we did have the least rules questions there... then compared to my other opponents.

frgsinwntr wrote:

syr8766 wrote:SOB made top 5 in Vegas, Chicago had 2 BT armies in the top 10, and Baltimore had Daemonhunters. Interesting.

What would be interesting to know is what percentage of other players brought the various 'top tier' armies (i.e. orks, csm, nids, eldar). If 70% brought those lists (instead of 70% bringing IG, Tau, Dark Eldar, etc.), might that have an affect on the top 10? In other words, how much of this is proof that those lists are top tier, and how much of it is self-fulfilling?

I really think its more the player then the army. After playing at the GT i realized that I knew the rules better then most of the people I played. Moz was on par with me (I didn't fully understand feel no pain and what counted as not getting an armor save) since I think we did have the least rules questions there... then compared to my other opponents.

There is something to what you are saying...but then too, look at some of the tournament players. Many of them are moving to the horde phenomenon.

5th ed. has only exacerbated the "Ork issue." IIRC, several of the pre-5th tournaments were won by Orks as well. 5th merely overemphasizes the disparity the new codex has allowed (in a sense, it makes any horde army effective).

The way to win a GT is to have a list that can beat nids, horde orks, nob bikers, double lash, jetbike eldar, sternpod marines, dark eldar, multiple landraiders, immolater spam, 3 exorcist spam, and any other cheese lists. Be a phenominal player. And not give away KP's and still comfortably capture objectives.

The few that can do this win GT's.

It just so happens that orks can do all of the above.

Eldanar wrote:

There is something to what you are saying...but then too, look at some of the tournament players. Many of them are moving to the horde phenomenon.

5th ed. has only exacerbated the "Ork issue." IIRC, several of the pre-5th tournaments were won by Orks as well. 5th merely overemphasizes the disparity the new codex has allowed (in a sense, it makes any horde army effective).

I will be going to the conflict GT... hopefully I can win that to toss a bigger tourny to the non ork players ;p