Iron warriors pro's and con's.

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**Xav**

I recently decided to started Iron Warriors and if any IW players out there would give me some fluff, tactics and pro's and con's of the IW also i would like to run three vindicators about 40 marines 3 rhinos, and the warsmith Honsou from storm of iron, i just finished a conversion of him from a normal CSM, and i think the CSM on the right of the new Storm of Iron book is Honsou, and some help with making his rules would be greatly apreciated.

P.S the Conversion of Honsou is on top of a wall of skulls, its pretty bad but it will do for now i think.

**wuestenfux**

Iron Warriors was one of the strongest armies during the last incarnation of the CSM codex.

Now GW buried their fluff. Nevertheless, an IW army is still playable. Your approach with 3 Vindicators, some troops mounted in Rhinos is viable. Of course, you need a Warsmith. I'd consider a Techmarine model.

**Gorilla Serialist**

Wasn't Honsou the name of Pete Haines' personal Iron Warriors army's warsmith? The guy who wrote the codex for them to be that powerful?

Anyway yeah Iron Warriors works just fine the way you've described. I'd consider a small squad of terminators with a dedicated land raider too to take some fire off your vindicators and add to the Iron Warriors' heavy armour theme. You could even deep strike the terminators and run your rhinoless marine squad in it to make it scoring.

Honsou is a daemon prince right? As in, he's a large model? I'd suggest using a Tzeentch marked prince with bolt to represent him (or a Tzeentch lord with daemon weapon if he doesn't have daemonic stature). Tzeentch works well for representing teched out marines: Iron Warriors, Iron Hands, Mentor Legion etc.

**Xav**

no Honsou is not a demon prince, at the end of the Storm of Iron book he was made warsmith and the previous warsmith became a Demon Prince, so i was thinking of starting the list at 750 and working my way up to 2000 or 3000 anyways i need stats and rules for Honsou so how about this.
I know that he wears powerarmour, has a powersword, i modeled him with a boltergun cause he uses one in the book alot, so maybe this.

WS BS S T I LD A S
6 5 5 5 5 1O 4 3/5

Wargear

Power armour.
Frag and Krak grenades.
Powersword.
Bolt pistol.
Boltgun.

Special rules

*Honsou demands only the best techmarines and every army that includes Honsou may repair vehicles immoblised on a 6.

*Honsou hatred of the Imperial Fists and other space marine chapters means that whenever he fights space marines all friendly models around him get an extra attack in close combat, as they get inspired by his hatred.

I was thinking around 180 points, what does everyone think? any help would be VERY apreicated.

**Belphegor**

Also consider making a loyalist marine list.
Just use chaos minis.
They already have a 'Warsmith' and techmarines

**Xav**

but that wouldnt be CSM would it, and ewwww marines!

**warsmith pyrus**

lookin' good so lots of vindicators and LR's and if you havent already post the model of honsou,i collect iw so the idea of seeing a hosou model intrigues me

**mercer**

As said in your list thread, Defilers are better for that more siege feel as they have a much longer range, three times more infact! You will spent 2 rounds at least getting the vindicator in range. Defilers have daemonic possession, and if your against something like a tyranid venom cannon which can only score glancing hits then its damn annoying - that will put the vindicator to 145 points, may as well and pay the 5 points extra and get a weapon which is triple range, can fleet and has 3 dreadnought close combat attacks

I suggest two defilers for siege attacks, then a predator with full lascannon setup for tank hunting and taking out monstrous creatures.

Your Honsou doesn't sound that good tbh, I have recently found this site which has some good fan made rules for Honsou, and other iron warrior characters > http://z4.invisionfree.com/ironwarriors/index.php?s=503c635bfaa9b2b76db0ac55e8fc31e7&act=idx

Terminators are good for sieges, once the walls have been broken. I only take terminators in a 2,000 list and I field 500 points worth including a lord in terminator armour.

**Techboss**

Xav wrote:I was thinking around 180 points, what does everyone think? any help would be VERY apreicated.

Let's see, he has +1 S, +1 T, +1 attack over a base Chaos Lord. The toughness is also a straight stat increase and not the 4(5) that most toughness upgrades are. This means that he can't be instana gibbed by a lot of stuff that could kill him otherwise.

I'd say:
Power weapon, +1 str, +1 attack = 35 points (Undivided Demon Weapon is 40)
Toughness of +1 to base = 20-30 points
Inspired Hatred = Base to base contact = 10 points, same squad = 15 to 20 points, within 6" = 30 to 40 points
Vehicle Repair = 10 points

Total points = 175 to 215 points

**Xav**

Techboss how about 185 points? and maybe with a demon weapon 220?

**Xav**

Mercer just looked at the IW forum and it awesome but, i like the rules for Honsou but maybe use those rules but give him a demon weapon and FNP down to 5+ but put his points up to 185. Il post the Honsou rules up now.
Honsou, Warsmith of the Iron Warriors - 155 Points

CODE
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv+
6 5 5 4 3 5 3 10 3+/5+

Wargear: Power Armour, Bolt Pistol, Power Weapon, Bolter, Frag and Krak Grenades, Melta Bombs

Special Rules
Fearless

Independant Character

Extensive Bionics: Honsou's arm has been replaced with an arm made of Necrodermis, the Necron Living Metal. It is effectivley indestructable, and has saved Honsou's life numerous times. It gives Honsour +1 Strength (already included in profile), and the Feel No Pain Universal Special Rule, except his save is a 6+ rather than a 4+, but this can be used on wounds which would cause Instant Death.

The Half-Breed: Honsou's Gene Seed is mixed with that of the Imperial Fists. This meant tht up untill the events of Hydra Cordatus, Honsou was looked on with disgust from his fellow Iron Warriors. This served to make Honsou fight to prove himself even more, pushing himself further. Honsou may re-roll all failed rolls to hit in Close Combat. You cannot re-roll a re-roll.

I thought these rules were realy good, and give me input on the demon weapon 5+ FNP chages please?

**sourclams**

Your rules are really choppy. FNP that only works on a 5 or 6 but can be taken against instant death attacks....

Sounds more like a 5+ invulnerable save.

What's the basis for your +1 Strength? The arm didn't make Pasanius any stronger, it just repaired damage (which we can already reflect with the invul save). We don't want Honsou to suck, though, so how about making his "normal" chainsword count as a power weapon in all respects.

Going by strict fluff, the Storm of Iron Honsou was just a straight up Chaos Lord with a bolt pistol, bolter, chainsword, frag/krak grenades that was fearless and could infiltrate.

He didn't change much from Dead Sky/Black Sun, other than acquiring the Necrodermis arm, which justifies the 5+ invuln.

The Half-Breed genes allowing rerolling in close combat is kind of neat, but I don't think that was the main focus of his pushing himself to excel. He really strikes me as more a leader/organizer type than a close combat specialist. I think a re-roll leadership and the Infiltrate USR conferred to whatever squad he is attached to would be more appropriate.

**Perturabo's Chosen**

I would have to agree with Sourclams on this one. While Honsou did do well on the battlefield, Iron Warriors are meticulous planers. His special rules would be less as direct combat, and more to army augments/boosts. Imagine if your army could re-deploy after your opponent set-up, or re-roll the “seize the initiative”. What if all blast weapons could re-roll scatter. Havoc squads as troops (scoring units). All enemy cover saves were at -1. These are all more inline with the nature of Iron Warriors. Also, allowing him to infiltrate with a unit of chosen sounds cool. And/or a better bolter or the old daemon weapon “Kai Gun”. Just my two cents.

Also, we know that a pre-Heresy legion was 10,000 Marines, and Storm of iron talks about grand companies. How many marines in a grand company? Honsou led one grand company at the beginning of the book, and was the warmaster of three at the end (plus countless tanks, artillery, siege engines, daemon engines, as well as a titian legion (an coolest of all, a tyranid hive ship that was subjugated my Abadon’s techno virus and now used as a transport)

It would be interesting to do an ally army of imperial guard for appcolypse; painting the soldiers as slaves, and using Cawdor and Redeptionists painted as the chaos cultists for the sergeants, and using imperial tanks and artillery.

**Xav**

Chosen you convinced me now, well i would like to have SOME close combat ablitiy as im putting him with a very close-combat chosen squad (4xpowerweapons+champs power weapon.)
Could someone help me....please?

EDIT: and you talked about Honsou 3rd grand company, well at the last seige, it said Honsou lead the remander of his company 62 marines, and i also like the idea of special bolters, a good shooty chaos HQ is hard to come by.

**Xav**

Well how about these rules for Honsou?

WS6, BS6, S4 , T5, I5, W3, A3, LD10, S3+/5+.

Special Rules

Fearless
Touch of Chaos

Wargear

Power armour.
Boltgun, Bolt pistol.
Frag and Krak grenades.
Kai Gun.

*At the seige of (cant remeber name of place) Honsou was touched by a demon of chaos, the demon fled almost simotamistly but the power which the demon granted Honsou did not, because of this Honsou gets 1+ to his tougness and 5+ invulnerable save.

*Honsou being a master of trench warfare knows the weakest parts of all earth, metals etc the oponent gets -1 to there cover save.
190 points.

**sourclams**

Honsou is most definitely not a T5 model. That would put him on par with Daemon Princes and Typhus.

A universal -1 to cover saves is far, far too powerful. It should only be the squad that Honsou leads.

What is a Kai Gun?

**mercer**

Also what squad has 4 power weapons and a power fist? A unit of chosen?

**Xav**

yeh a chosen squad and ok il edit it and and make it only his squad, and bring him down to T4 and any advice, i wanna make him more shooty.

**Xav**

yeh a chosen squad and ok il edit it and and make it only his squad, and bring him down to T4 and any advice, i wanna make him more shooty.

**Xav**

Xav wrote:I recently decided to started Iron Warriors and if any IW players out there would give me some fluff, tactics and pro's and con's of the IW also i would like to run three vindicators about 40 marines 3 rhinos, and the warsmith Honsou from storm of iron, i just finished a conversion of him from a normal CSM, and i think the CSM on the right of the new Storm of Iron book is Honsou, and some help with making his rules would be greatly apreciated.

P.S the Conversion of Honsou is on top of a wall of skulls, its pretty bad but it will do for now i think.

**Perturabo's Chosen**

lookie lookie what i found. Most everything in the following website seams correct acording to my memory, but i didn't fact check it. take a look.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Iron_Warriors

Also, have you decided on an army list yet? Make in an Apcolype one so that you can take only havocs, oblits, defilers, and vindicators!

**Xav**

Thanks chosen for the link, and this is my list: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/223628.page Im considering on swapping out one vindicator for a defiler (I got one for apcolipse), or swap out all vindicators for two defilers.