Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Belial twn claws 130 + 55 for appocathary and banner upgrades
interigator chaplain in term armor with combi melta of flamer 150

term squad 4 x twn claws 1 x fist and flamer 225
term squad 1 x twn claws 1 x power sword/bolter 1 x assault cannon/powerfist 1 x thunder hammer/storm shield 1x pw fist/bolter 245

land raider crusader 255
land raider crusader 255


leaves 185 points

belial and the chaplain join the fist term squad that squad is also given the baner for +1 attack and the appocathary upgrade

The plan is to shoot smoke, assault a flank, charge out of the lrc's while blocking the line of sight from the rest of the army using the crusaders.
First thing to go is anything that can damage the raiders from range, bright lances, rail guns ect.

each assault term will get 5 lightning claw attacks on the charge, re-roll to hit, re-roll to wound, power weapon. -the squad with the banner-

i'm trying to decide what to do with the left over points. a drop pod with a dread or a raven wing squad with melta guns to hunt tanks, or maybe a 5 man vet squad with a las cannon? i think i need a little more anti tank even though the raiders both have meltas.

so what do you think?

I have been playing the Deathwing for as long as i have been in the hobby which is about 10 years. I can tell you what i have learned from them being my favorite and oldest army. They have been threw many many painting and FOC changes over the years. But they have always remained a competitive army for me. I have seen many people try and give up on this army. As they tend to think it is harder then it really is. Most realize it is actually very fragile and give up. It is hard to use but when you do you can really put the smack down. These are my observations and from my perspective only please take with a grain of salt.

First Deathwing should only be in cc as a last resort. I know this sounds strange with all the power weapon options but its true. They don't have the numbers to survive vs hidden power weapons and fists. And they end up losing the points battle this way. Also they get out maneuvered by faster armies that just move out of the way and shoot the snot out of them as they do so. This includes no sweeping advance for termies. This will get you stuck in the open after you kill a speed bump unit. The entire army shoots you to death.

However where the Deathwing excels is in mobile firepower. They move 6 inches and fire a ton of weapons. They fit in a small space. They all move and fire. Dreads and landraiders help block line of site and are hard as nails to kill. AV 14 on landraiders block line of site and termies assault out of them when the bad guys get to close with pesky melta's. Not to mention Missle launchers and las cannons have a uphill battle taking them out. Next is Dreadnaughts. Mobile fire platforms that when venerable just refuse to die. Now you have the hard exterior. Hard to kill and protects your "softer" interior. When they do finally close with you you should have plenty of Powerfists following a ton of bolter shots. Better to soften them up and then jump on them. Yes powerfists as Lightning Claws and thunderhammers cost you shots they depend on too much.

Any other IC is a waste of points in this army. As you can get a dread with the points and they are just more effective than an IC in the Deathwing. All ya need is a skimped Belial and you are set for HQ.

To sum up. Use AV to protect your termies from enemy firepower. Fight in a Phalanx. Shoot one unit till it is dead then move to the next. Best to isolate 250pts of their army and kill it with your entire army. When they get close ,and they will, when they realize they cannot hope to out last you. With superior range (mostly) and stuff that doesn't die easily. You should grind most opponents down. When they move to assault and most armies do. You shoot squads till you are confident they will die with your counter assault.

I know Deepstriking sounds nasty but in a pure deathwing you deepstrike stuff in and it becomes unsupported and you get shot to ribbons. Ya just give your opponent a good reason to ignore your main force and blast away at the stuff in range. Usually it is over the moment you try it. Now in a standard DA army this works wonders with ravenwing. As you can make an effective flank and are all over your opponent. You just don't have the model count to make it work well in a pure Deathwing. I say avoid deepstrkining like the plague. But that is just me.

My army usually looks like this. Higher points of course but i just remove or add based on points needed but the core always looks like this for me.

HQ: Belial w/ SB and MC power weapon. (Every shots counts.)
TR: Termy squad with 1 chain fist and one assault cannon (Rest PF and SB)
TR: Termy Squad with Cyclone missile launcher (Rest PF and SB)
TR: Termy Squad with 1 heavy flamer and 2 lightning claws (In Land Raider)
TR: Termy Squad with 2 lighting claws and 1 chain fist (rest PF and SB in land raider)
El: Venerable Dread LC and ML
El: Venerable Dread LC and ML
Hv: Land Raider (Better at range than a crusader and more flexible in this config)
Hv: Land Raider

Hope this helps. I know there are other ways to build this army and some may even be better but it is my old faithful army and i might be stuck in my ways. I have used ravenwing and they are brutal together as well. But for pure deathwing this seems to work the best for me. I have lost very very few games with them this way and even taken first at quite a few tournaments with them. They are great fun but a very unforgiving army. One tactical mistake and you are toast. As always with a grain of salt....

++Edit: 1 Added Deepstriking
++Edit: Fixed horrible spelling (Sorry)

Play 3 Ravenwing Bikes. They allow for a direct deepstrike with no scatter. All can come off this one squad.

Take chainfists. You always need them, trust me.

Your list is ok, but you are not using strength of DW. That being DW assault (deepstrike half rounded up terminator squads on turn 1). Each of those land raiders is another squad of terminators.

Try it out. I have been playing Deathwing for about 4 months. I like to use the Ravenwing bikes for more options.

O i forgot chain fists of course. Has anyone tried the land raider prometheus? 4 X twin linked heavy bolters. If i were to change my termi configeration to be mainly range instead of assault i would probably play


Belial with twn claws 130

termi squad with assault cannon 245
termi squad with assault cannon 245
termi squad 215

land raider prometheus 270
land raider 250

venerable dread with plasma cannon 143

1498 points

In my opinion it would be a better list. I am not sure if you can use the promethius in regular games with out permission as it uses a forgeworld model and rules. It would be pretty effective, i would imagine, if and when you can use it. If you have a relaxed gaming group or store that is cool with it i would say go for it just to be different.

Missle launchers on the termies have superior range than assult cannons. Or one of each is always nice for maximum benefit.

Belial with 2 claws is ok but will have more benefit with a SB as you are shooty . He cannot assault out of the land raider with the termies anyway so might as well have him help with what the army is doing. Remember every shot counts.

The dread is good and any weapons choices you go with on a venerable is workable. Plasma cannon works great as high AP and helps as a counter assault unit. Plus gives your opponents termies nightmares. I prefer the 2x LC and Missile launcher as fire support but there is no right or wrong way in this config. As it is all a preference call in this type of list. Basically both work well.

You seem to like assault as well. This can be accomplished but almost impossible, in my opinion, with a pure deathwing. You might try a quick write up involving a few ravenwing bikes and speeders or just bikes. Toss in a few melta guns and DS terminators with assault cannons and you can cause havoc in your opponents backfield. Also a venerable dread in a drop pod that uses the bikes teleport homer and Deathwing Assault can cause nightmares after you turbo boost 24 inches in your scout move. Dread with lots of termies suddenly appearing on your opponents flank will mess up his day. But ya still need the shots if you are to stand a chance so as few LC and TH as you can per group. I would say one LC in one group and one TH in the other is all you need. If you are sold on assault the most effective way is to mix ravenwing and deathwing. One full squad of 6 bikes and one attack bike will work wonders. Melta on the SGT and 2 melta guns on the bikes with a multimelta attack bike adds lots of kick and speed to your army. Remember you can out flank with the bikes and really mess up your opponents day. Only do that if the mission set up works to your advantage to do so otherwise turbo boost. Remember to bring your chainfists and melta guns/bombs if you do it this way.

Write up that list and compare them. See what would be the most fun and effective for how YOU play. Imagine using each vs different types of armies and what your tactics would be. Then you will have your ideal list that is tailored to your style and your game play. Would love to know which you choose of the three.

can you turbo boost in the scout move? i thought it said you couldn't.

In the new DA FAQ it states that you can. Which makes a huge difference to your battle plans. It makes the DW assault worth a damn. You will have fun with this tactic.

it would definately make teleporting better but i don't see where it says you can. this is the faq? - http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1810079_DarkAngels_Oct_2008_5th_Edition_FAQ.pdf

My bad. I thought it was in the DA FAQ. It is the 2nd or 3rd question in the FAQ for the 40k rulebook. 2008. Should be the first download in the FAQ and Errata section. Sorry for the confusion. My linking ability leaves something to be desired sorry.

Sha1emade wrote: Also a venerable dread in a drop pod that uses the bikes teleport homer and Deathwing Assault can cause nightmares after you turbo boost 24 inches in your scout move. Dread with lots of termies suddenly appearing on your opponents flank will mess up his day. But ya still need the shots if you are to stand a chance so as few LC and TH as you can per group. I would say one LC in one group and one TH in the other is all you need. If you are sold on assault the most effective way is to mix ravenwing and deathwing. One full squad of 6 bikes and one attack bike will work wonders. Melta on the SGT and 2 melta guns on the bikes with a multimelta attack bike adds lots of kick and speed to your army. Remember you can out flank with the bikes and really mess up your opponents day. Only do that if the mission set up works to your advantage to do so otherwise turbo boost. Remember to bring your chainfists and melta guns/bombs if you do it this way.

Bold for effect. You can not turbo boost in scout move with Ravenwing bikes. Dark Angels were not blessed with any upgrades from new 5th scout rules or new Space Marine codex. Page 27 of DA codex, codex rule trumps core rules.

Sad really!

Futhermore, DA's don't have drop pod assault neither. So drop pods come in as reserves from turn 2 on.

True Drop pods can not deathwing assault. That was not what i meant to imply. In later rounds is the only way. Was not hinting that they could sorry for the confusion. Only meant to say they use the teleport homers.

As for the turbo boost in the scout move. Hhnmmmm. It does spell it out pretty obvious in the DA book. As for the new faq as far as i know the only 2 types of bikes that have the scout rule are the Ravenwing and the new scout bikes. Seems strange to me that they didn't just say scout bikes can turbo boots. But i will concede this point.

Our local area believes the FAQ to be a trump on the codex. As it did come out after the DA book and specifies bikes not scout bikes. We believe this to be RAI when it comes to this rule. Not to mention 5th ed came out after the DA book. Which changes the way the game is meant to be played. So i also see this a a fundamental change in the game and should trump the DA book. Hence the FAQ and the new rule. I am not one for pushing the interpretation of a rule as far as it goes just to get my way and don't feel like a long discussion on this either. But that is how i look at the way it was presented.

It is still a good tactic without the turbo boots. Especially if you go first. 12 inch scout move. Deathwing assault. 12 inch move. Shoot melta guns then 6 in assault. Still very nasty with termies following the bikes next round.

What I run it works ok need to fine tune it more

3 X Deathwing squads with 1 Assualt Cannon and 1 CF
3 X Deathwing Squads with CM and 1 CF
Beilal

1610pts

all deep strike

I think I might drop 2 squads and take 2 land raider's

I have never been a fan of an all deep striking army. It tends to leave you unprotected and leaves to much to chance. And a smart opponent will just combine fire and kill ya one squad at a time. But i have seen other people use it to great effect. It is just not my cup of tea but each to their own. If it works for you great. It is always fun to change up the deathwing from time to time and keep your opponents guessing. What is your ideal game size? My area is mostly 2k points. The deathwing is ideal at that point cost IMHO. Less and they have a few weakness that are hard to overcome but i might just be used to that limit and feel the pain when i have to drop something.

my area plays almost only 1500 points. i agree that deepstriking is risky; my main army is tau and when things deepstrike in against me they almost always die first turn. even the things i deepstrike die but then again when i fit a single suit with twin fusion blasters and it deepstrikes it usually kills a tank then dies next turn. the army i've been using for years is mainly firewarriors and broadsides along with some kroot for taking objectives and some path finders and crisis suits because they rock, but my army is full of bodies and mainly static. i decided i wanted to try a smaller and more elite army so i decided deathwing, but it was close between them and deamon hunters. they just look so cool. Can deamon hunters join deathwing as allies?

Here is my load out for a standard DW terminator squad:

Sergeant w. pair of lightning claws
terminator w. pair of lightning claws & cyclone missile launchers
3x terminators w. power fist & storm bolter

Giving the sergeant a pair of lightning claws is worth losing one storm bolter per squad. The power weapon just does not cut it in close combat. The beauty of the cyclone missile launcher is you can take another pair of lightning claws. I just really wish our CML had two shots. Still the S8 shot with 48" range is very powerful when combined with the ability to move and shoot. Finally you still have 6 bolted rounds that all fire at 24" range. To me this is the best synergistic approach to the squad.

For the command squad I would load up on lightning claws and the banner with one thunder hammer and join them with the interrogator chaplain. Put them in an LRC... You will get the charge for sure... two characters hitting at I5 plus all reroll hits and the lightning claws reroll wounds. They can drop just about anything.

G

thanks all