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HQ

Lord
mark of tzeench,demon weapon,combi-melta.
155


Elites

Chosen x8
champ,powerfist, x4 powerweapon.
244

Troops

CSM X10
Champ,PF,2x melta.
Rhino.
245

CSM x9
Champ,PF,2x flamer.
Rhino.
220

CSM x10
Heavy bolter,plasma gun.
180

Heavy support

Defiler
150

Defiler
150

Defiler
150

I was thinking of switching out a Rhino squad for a beefed up chosen squad for Honsou and should i use him or just get a Lord.

Here's the link to the thread were his rules are (scroll down a bit):http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/223590.page

I take Iron Warriors as well, and due to range and the effectiveness in close combat against none power fist totting marines, Defilers are good.

They have a much better range over vindicators, and have daemonic possession. I dropped my two vindicators for two Defilers

Ive been told the exact opposite, and vindicators are cool and str 10 and ap 2 and are alot smaller and better armour then the defiler.

Defiler has S8 and ap3, so your still going to blow marines up. They have one more armour value than defilers do vindicators.

The pros for defilers out weigh vindicators:

Defiler has better range, near enough same strength shot, has daemonic possession, can be used for close combat, has S10 attacks in combat.

I used to use vindicators, but you spend time getting into range. Plus Defiler is that far away only a lascannon can get to it and it has to move.

It doesnt have str 10 in close combat, and maybe il switch to defiler but i want to give vindicators a try first, and i can always use them for apcolipse if i switch to defilers.

Errr it has dreadnought close combat weapon, which is S10.

Trust me, I've fielded two Vindicators. Don't get me wrong I still like 'em, but the rang on the Defilers is far superior and can attack low units in CC easily.

it says str 6?

Yes, but the core rules say that dreadnought close combat weapons are s10 and a power a fist. The Defiler's wargear is a dreadnought close combat weapon. If the dread weapons are destroyed, then it reverts to S6.

Wow cool, i have one defiler at the moment, and i think your right, so il change to three defilers is better, and could my lord inflitrate with the chosen? and still need advice.

Why do people post "friendly" lists for consideration? i do not mean this against you personally Xav, i just always wondered about that. If its a friendly list then you are taking the units you like based on fluff, personal preference, aesthetics, etc. and not based on efficiency or other people's experiences with certain units. How can anyone else give you ideas for what you will like?

Do people post them so that others will tell them what a neat idea it is or what? Especially considering that this is Dakka, the best source for making a good army,

Like i said, not trying to be mean, it just seems like a strange thing to do. i can understand if people are looking for encouragement, ideas and inspiration for a heavily converted army, but how is anyone going to help you make a substandard "fun" list?

I post friendly lists because i want to see what people think of it, they tell you what they prefer (like mercer did) you then take into account what they said, and think if you would like it or not, also i would most probaly use this for a competive game anyway.


EDIT: Also i didnt want to buy three vindicators and realise there is something cooler, with big claws that work better in three's.

fair enough, it just seems strange to me. i would think that you take what you like in a friendly list because you know what you like already.

I better change the title. When i say Friendly i mean my all-around list for everything and anywhere.

those are two very different things as i know the words to be used in the context of 40K.

Friendly is the opposite of what some gamers call WAAC (win at all costs) lists.

As I understand it, friendly lists include units that are not considered optimal but may be fluffy, well sculpted, etc., such as swooping hawks, possessed chaos marines, etc.

These lists pay no or little attention to efficiency, and instead focus on what some gamers feel is a "fun" or "fair" list, although that is a subjective guideline, which a lot of the proponents of said armies seem to ignore. I personally think a fun list is a good list as it will be a challenge to play, and a fair list is anything legal per the codex.

The type of list you now propose, a list good for any gaming situation, such as a pickup game or a tournament, etc. would not need any kind of introduction. Here, people will tell you what works best, which gives you a good army.

I hope i dont sound like i am picking on you, as im not trying to, it is just something I have always wondered about.

It seems to me that when people post a list as friendly, they want either to have their list praised with no alterations suggested as it would no longer be what they pictured in their mind, or they want to power up their list without being seen as a WAAC list, which seems silly to me. Its like building your army to make other people happy when you should be building a list that makes you happy.

To each their own, i just wouldnt bother asking if i was making a fun list. I would just make a list with models i liked and not expect to win against a good army. If i posted a list online for criticism, especially on Dakka, I would expect to get a list that is fine tuned to play well on the board based on what other people had experienced.

But then, that is just the way I look at it.

I see friendly as a fun relaxing game without lash and obliterators etc, IMO if your not using a competive build and not doing a torny its friendly. Also i would like to win the magority of my games, and any tank is IW so its always fluffy as long as you stay away from Cult troops.

Why do friendly games not include oblits or a lash? Are you being unfriendly by including these units? I wouldnt think that at all.

It seems like an arbitrary guideline to me.

So, your definition of friendly is the same as mine, you use non competitive units, which means you should just pick what ever you want to pick. You can't expect people to give you list suggestions keeping in mind your totally subjective ideas on what is or is not fair or friendly.

Your saying two lash princes and six obliterators isnt a competive build? I like to see what people think of my lists, (usualy bad) so i dont want to waste money on stuff then realise, ive made a list and its completely ****, a waste of my money and a game. I also like my lists to be good, so i try to use effective units that are fun and fluffy, i dont see possesed as fun. Seeing a 120 point unit blasted to peices of your first turn is pleasent or fun.

Im thinking of switching out chosen since my lord cant inflitrate with them after all, for some terminators, and maybe change to terminator lord?


Maybe

Terminators x6
Reaper, 2xcombi-melta, Icon of Tzeench.
225

And im thinking of switching two meltas for two plasma guns, and have them footslog, or give them plasma gun and lascannon, and give cover fire.

Xav, I have a daemon prince in my 1,500 list. I have warp time and wings. Wings so it can move 12" then charge 6", thats a 24" move! Then warp time to re-roll to hit and wound in combat - as the DP is a mosntrous creature no saves.

The DP is tougher than the Lord, more attacks, allows no armour saves and has more wounds along with better weapon skill.

The only time I take a lord is in 2,000 list, a terminator lord. Only reason for that is because it was a expensive model and is a shame to waste.

My lord has terminator armour, daemon weapon & combi flamer. I also take two five man terminator units each unit is equipped with combi flamer and heavy flamer. One unit will have one pair of lightning claws while the other will have two power fists.

For yours you don't really want the reaper as termines are for close combat.

If you want to stick with fluff then IW's don't worship chaos, they use it as a tool. So no icons. Plus if you had a terminator lord you get a 5+* save anyway.

The switch you talking about Chosen? I have jsut dropped my chosen any way for a unit of marines with 2 meltas and a rhino.

Xav I've posted my army list, I hope you don't mind and hope it will help a fellow Iron Warrior. If its a problem let me know and I will edit/delete my post

[HQ]

1 x Daemon Prince - wings & warp time

Troops

10 x CSM w/ rhino - 2 x meltaguns - champion w/ bolt pistol & ccw

10 x CSM w/ rhino - 2 x meltguns - champion w/ bolt pistol & ccw

10 x CSM w/ rhino - 2 x meltaguns - champion w/ bolt pistol & ccw

10 x CSM w/ rhino - 2 x meltaguns - champion w/ bolt pistol & ccw

Heavy Support

1 x Predator - lascannon turret & side sponsors

1 x Defiler - ccw & heavy flamer

1 x Defiler - ccw & heavy flamer

Ok, first the DP. Has wings so can get into combat quicker and to re-roll to hit and to wound is a must. The DP can follow a rhino into combat and use 4+ cover save from it. As all CSM have bolt & ccw they all have 2 attacks, so the prince can go with either unit.

A huge amount of troops with transport to get those meltas into range. A massive rhino rush will cause your opponent confusion as you surge forward. Once you disembark the rhinos can be used for cover and also have twin linked bolter as standard wargear so can provide extra fire power.

Plenty of heavy support for background purposes. Predator I recently added in due to lack of anti tank. I have a loyalist counter part and it works well. Defilers are for the siege feel. I originally had two vindicators with daemonic possession which both come to 145, yet a defiler is 150! So with better range, better combat abilities along with S10 weapon, fleet and a heavy flamer I choose defilers - yes the armour in one lower than the vindicator, but so many more advantages over the vindicator. I tend to lay down heavy fire support until the troops and prince get in then more the defilers into combat - but only put them in against something without a power fist or high strength value or else they will get wrecked.

Now this list is then expanded to 2000 points with:

1 x Chaos Lord - terminator armour, combi flamer & daemon weapon

5 x Chaos Terminators - 1 x combi flamer, 1 x heavy flamer & 1 x lightning klaws

5 x Chaos Terminators - 1 x combi flamer, 1 x heavy flamer & 2 x power fists.

Reason for the lord is its a expensive £££ models and looks good so is same to waste. But give it a daemon weapon and hope you don't roll a 1 its pretty decent in combat, also give a combi flamer as you don't need to roll to hit.

The termies are in two units reason is because I deep strike them. If I put them all in one unit along with the lord and loose them then I've lost 500 points! SO they're in seperate units but will deep strike close to each other. Again as they're better for assault due to the power fists and weapons I've given them combi flamers and heavy flamers, two flame templates per team and again no need to roll to hit. Then one team has lightning klaws so can re-roll and the other two power fists to make up for the lightning klaws plus because my list comes to bang on 2000 points then.

I hope that helps.

Dont have a problem with that mercer, i miss elites when i dont take them.

Updated List:

HQ

Demon Prince.
Warptime, Wings.
155


Elites

Terminators x7
2x combi-melta, 1x powerfist.
230

Troops

CSM X10
Champ,PF,2x melta.
Rhino.
245

CSM x10
Champ,PF,plasma gun, plasma gun.
220

CSM x10
Champ,PF, Missle Launcher, plasma gun.
215

Heavy support

Defiler
150

Defiler
150

Defiler
150

Demons Prince does his stuff, while the troops advance, melta squad goes after tanks. Plasma squad deals with terminators or elites etc. Terminators DS and try to contest rip through a squad on objective, Defilers provide cover fire, or kill troops, or go after tanks. What does people think, im open to all suggestions apart from lash and obliterators.

I think thats good matey. Though perhaps a predator with lascannon for anti tank support juse in case those defilers miss and the meltas need to get into range.