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Ok, in DoW rules, it states you can have a MAX of 1 HQ and 2 Troop units on the table at the end of deployment. On page 92 of the Little rule book under 'Multiple Unit Choices', it states that "Apart from being bought as a single choice, these units [dedicated transports] operate and count as separate units in all respects."
My question is if I have a SM Tactical Squad with a Rhino, do I get to deploy the rhino with the tac squad since the rhino is a separate unit and not an HQ or Troop unit?

"Unit" is the operating word.
The squad is a unit and the transport is another unit.

While the rules are a bit sketchy on it, i've never seen it played as the rhino counting. Its always included with the squad, so usually its 2 squads in rhinos and an hq deploying. This is how the redshirts say it is, and while i know that hardly the letter of the law i think RAI is clear here.

Where we play it's been that transports are counted as units so you deploy HQ + Troop + Transport not HQ + Troop and Transport + Troop and Transport

Judging by "...in all respects" and that DoW says you deploy two UNITS from troops selection it follows that if you deploy a dedicated transport with its unit you have used up all the troop selections.

But deploying a transport AFTER the unit is just dumb. From any perspective.

Look to the example in the mission description, and all your questions will be answered.

Anung Un Rama wrote:But deploying a transport AFTER the unit is just dumb. From any perspective.

Explain... Are you talking about some sort of tactical faux pas, or just personal preference?

Yep, the example says it all. When playing my DE I've always sent in one raider squad w/ an attached Haemonoculus all embarked. Perfectly legal.

Oh, thanks for the pointer lord sutekh, I hadn't noticed that example before and it really does clear it up, seems alot of people have been playing it wrong me included.

The rules aren't sketchy on it at all. Read the entire Dawn of War deployment example. It specifically addresses the transport issue.

It reads that a dedicated transport can be taken as the second Troop choice.

From the Dawn of War description:

"Example:.....In his half of the table, player B then deploys a unit of troops, already embarked into their dedicated transport (which is his second unit of troops). He then deploys an independent character from his HQ, joining the unit embarked in the transport"

We've houseruled it so that transports don't count, but the rulebook's example here is pretty explicit: dedicated transports count as your second unit from troops.
slowed? Yes. But it's absolutely explicit, so therefore both RAW and RAI are that it counts as your second troops selection.

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:slowed? Yes.

I disagree. A unit is a unit.

Sure, when it's only a rhino, it may seem odd. But think instead of someone deploying a unit with a Land Raider as a dedicated transport as opposed to a Squad and a HS Land Raider. Makes a slightly larger difference to the scenario.

insaniak wrote:

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:slowed? Yes.

I disagree. A unit is a unit.

Sure, when it's only a rhino, it may seem odd. But think instead of someone deploying a unit with a Land Raider as a dedicated transport as opposed to a Squad and a HS Land Raider. Makes a slightly larger difference to the scenario.

I'm thinking more about someone deploying two 20 man berzerker squads and a daemon prince vs someone deploying a 10 man tac squad in a rhino with a librarian. How many troops squads get LRs as dedicated transports? Pretty much only deathwing squads. I mean I can understand why it's done, a transport can pretty much be IN the enemy deployment zone first turn with DoW deployment, its just that they're telling me a 35 point rhino is the same as a 200 point troop squad.

Pretty much i just don't like dawn of war deployment. It's pretty frusterating to my drop pod army when I drop in first turn with nothing to shoot at.

Depending on how it's used, a 35 point transport can possibly be worth more than that 200 point troop squad.

How about a unit of Ork Nobz in a Battlewagon?

I like to start a Rhino on the board to illuminate something with its searchlight on turn 1, so everything I have which can move and fire comes on turn 1 and pounds the illuminated unit.

Mannahnin wrote:I like to start a Rhino on the board to illuminate something with its searchlight on turn 1, so everything I have which can move and fire comes on turn 1 and pounds the illuminated unit.

I like to do the same thing with a Lord packing a Solar Pulse. I found out it Really annoys the crap out of my opponents when they find out they have to play with Night Fight but I do not.

I bet the rhino doesn't last long though when it's the only targettable thing for them.

If you don't think the rhino is worth deploying... then don't deploy it. Deploy a different second unit. But it is definitely powerful enough that it should not get to be put on for 'free'

ok example of why a rhino can be lethal in DOW setup

HQ - DP with lash.

Troops Bezerkers with rhino.

Go second.

they can't charge and all shooting uses nightfighting rules.

When you go, fire the rhino at your target first, hopefull you see them. You've then illuminated them and then you can lash without needing to role nightfighting.

Or even better if they have something big and killy again light 'em up and use your heavy stuff which has long range and just come on from the board edge to hit them.

Hail the mighty rhino!

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:its just that they're telling me a 35 point rhino is the same as a 200 point troop squad.

Pretty much i just don't like dawn of war deployment. It's pretty frusterating to my drop pod army when I drop in first turn with nothing to shoot at.

Yep, and a 60 point IG squad is the same as that 200 point Troop squad as well. So? Bottom line is that unless you houserule it, transports count.

And yeah, I think Drop Pod armies should always go first, so that my IG don't sit there with nothing to shoot at for the first turn..................................... Same thing, right?

don_mondo wrote:

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:its just that they're telling me a 35 point rhino is the same as a 200 point troop squad.

Pretty much i just don't like dawn of war deployment. It's pretty frusterating to my drop pod army when I drop in first turn with nothing to shoot at.

Yep, and a 60 point IG squad is the same as that 200 point Troop squad as well. So? Bottom line is that unless you houserule it, transports count.

And yeah, I think Drop Pod armies should always go first, so that my IG don't sit there with nothing to shoot at for the first turn..................................... Same thing, right?

But that takes all the fun out of pelting your soft little bellies with bolter shells now doesn't it

Steelmage99 wrote:"Unit" is the operating word.
The squad is a unit and the transport is another unit.

exactly, you get to deploy a total of 3 UNITS. So a squad with a transport is 2 units. Mech. guard and other transport armies usually get nerfed a bit ( I hope this was intentional) its no biggie though because everything comes on first turn anyway and your in transports so, how much does it really hurt you. IMHO it really bogs the game for the first 2 turns especially if you have 2 large armies. Smart players use it as a sort of scout move, with the actual deployment taking place on turn 1. Also remember its UP to 2 troops and 1 HQ you dont have to deploy anything.

Anung Un Rama wrote:But deploying a transport AFTER the unit is just dumb. From any perspective.

Deploying two transports can be useful, if you can go first. Put out two "sacrificial" rhinos at the edge of the deployment zone, forcing the opponent 18" away from your rhinos. On first turn, move them 12" back towards your board edge, and bring in the remaining units. Very few things can shoot at your rhinos (without a range of 30" [minimum] and a role of a 10 on your nightfight action), and the tac marines can board the trucks in the next turn.