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If you have a hunter killer for a vehicle and it has been destroyed does it still count as a weapon?

G

If you have one and it is subtracted, do you still have that one?

1-1=0

I would like to see some more posters answer this one.

: )

G

I'm not sure I understand the question...

If the HK missile has been destroyed, then it has been destroyed. It's not going to count as anything.

So if you shoot the HKM it counts as destroyed?

G

i think he means fired ... which i guess could be destroyed since the mounting are still there ... nothing in the rules i can see that 1 shot weapons evaporate once fired

I think the point of the question, and forgive me if I am wrong, is can you choose the HK as a 'Weapon Destroyed' result once it is fired.

I would say no.

Green Blow Fly wrote:So if you shoot the HKM it counts as destroyed?

Not so far as I'm aware.

It's a single use weapon, but the Marine codex specifically states that it counts as an additional weapon for the vehicle.

There is nothing that I'm aware of that says that it stops counting as an additional weapon once it has been fired.


I would personally play it as 'once it's fired, it's gone and no longer counts as anything', but so far as the rules are concerned, it's an additional weapon regardless of whether or not it's been used.

The fact that it can only be fired once has no bearing on its status as a weapon mounted on the vehicle.

The whole 'once it's fired, it's gone' thing would also be a major issue if the vehicle in question has no other weapons and is immobilised. Fire the missile, vehicle go boom? Unless they've changed it, I'm still a little hazy on the rules. >_<

Vandez wrote:The whole 'once it's fired, it's gone' thing would also be a major issue if the vehicle in question has no other weapons and is immobilised. Fire the missile, vehicle go boom? Unless they've changed it, I'm still a little hazy on the rules. >_<

Well if it were to go boom, something would have to hit it. It takes another hit on a weaponless/immobilized vehicle to destroy it.

Vandez wrote:The whole 'once it's fired, it's gone' thing would also be a major issue if the vehicle in question has no other weapons and is immobilised. Fire the missile, vehicle go boom? Unless they've changed it, I'm still a little hazy on the rules. >_<

Exactly... I am thinking of an iron clad with two to keep him moving.

G

The problem lies in the fact that GW hasn't discriminated between the launcher (weapon) and the round of ammunition (missile). Technically, if the missile is used, the vehicle has an empty weapon that is not immediately reloadable. Because GW did not list the option as a "hunter-killer missile launcher, one-round available", a reasonable case can be made either way. Nevertheless, on page 103, in the paragraph discussing the HKM, the C:SM does say that the HKM "is treated as an additional weapon. [Italics mine] Note that in the list of infantry weapons, the missile launcher is the weapon and two different types of ammo rounds are listed. RAW is on the side of the fired missile no longer being available for a "weapon destroyed" victim. If all else fails, dice for it before the game.

JCarter wrote:Note that in the list of infantry weapons, the missile launcher is the weapon and two different types of ammo rounds are listed. RAW is on the side of the fired missile no longer being available for a "weapon destroyed" victim. If all else fails, dice for it before the game.

Sorry, you lost me there.

You've just said that the codex lists it as a weapon, but then gone on to say that this means it doesn't count as a weapon...?

A Hunter Killer missile is an upgrade to a vehicle, not an extra weapon, even though it can do damage.

Just like a Deff Rolla. All the weapon destroyed rolls in the world isn't going to remove it.

Edit: Or maybe not. The rules are a little ambiguous. But I'd say it'd be a bit Rules Gamey to say that the launcher stays since it is a one-shot weapon.

Mekniakal wrote:A Hunter Killer missile is an upgrade to a vehicle, not an extra weapon,

The Codex disagrees with you...

Pge 103:
"They are treated as an additional weapon"

insaniak wrote:

Mekniakal wrote:A Hunter Killer missile is an upgrade to a vehicle, not an extra weapon,

The Codex disagrees with you...

Pge 103:
"They are treated as an additional weapon"

Oh well. I'm an Ork anyway

So I guess all that matters if it is a one shot or not.

what is being destroyed. You mean if there is a "Weapon Destroyed" result on the damage chart, can the Hunter Killer be removed.

I would say: Yes, it is an additional weapon same as a Storm Bolter. It has a mounting and everything. It is a part of the tank.

If it has already been fired, presumably your opponent will remove the Storm Bolter first.

Mekniakal wrote:So I guess all that matters if it is a one shot or not.

That affects how many times it can shoot.

It has no effect whatsoever on whether or not it counts as a weapon.

From a purely representative point of view, there's something pleasantly cinematic about an immobilized wreck of a vehicle getting a final shot off before collapsing into actual wreckage.

The same issue arises for Tau Seeker Missiles. There was a long thread about them a long time ago (possibly in a galaxy far far away) but I can't remember the result.

Ah, this old chestnut. Good to see some things never change.

Plus ca change....

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/193115.page#193115

Im certain it has been done several times before. Could only find the one though. Weak search-fu.

If i rolled a vehicle destroyed result I wouldn't agree to the hunter killer being destroyed....unless it was their last weapon.

can you move and shoot with them? or do you just treat HKM like any other gun on a tank/walker?

and....if you have two of them on your iron clad can you shoot them both in the same turn?

a HKM is just like any other weapon on a vehicle, only it's a single shot weapon, the Iron Clad can shoot both of them but that's because walkers fire as though stationary, meaning an ironclad can fire as many weapons in a turn as it can fit on it.

insaniak wrote:It's a single use weapon, but the Marine codex specifically states that it counts as an additional weapon for the vehicle.

There is nothing that I'm aware of that says that it stops counting as an additional weapon once it has been fired.

I would personally play it as 'once it's fired, it's gone and no longer counts as anything', but so far as the rules are concerned, it's an additional weapon regardless of whether or not it's been used.

The fact that it can only be fired once has no bearing on its status as a weapon mounted on the vehicle.

I agree with your view on this
I'd personally play it that the HKM counts as an extra weapon on the vehicle and it can be affected by a "Weapon Destroyed" result on the dice. But, once you fire the weapon (hit or miss) then the HKM no longer counts as a weapon as it has been used and I wouldn't allow it to then be chosen as a "Weapon Destroyed" result.

My two pence anyway