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I have been hearing a lot about how bad it is to have spears on Skeletons. So I did some math and am wondering how much of a difference it makes.

Unit of 20 Skeletons with full Command Hand Weapon and shield
Ws 2 Str 3 T 3
Get a save on a 4+ for 6 attacks
Hitting on 4 versus rnf
Hitting on 5 versus Lord/Hero

Unit of 20 Skeletons with full Command Spear and Shield
Ws 2 Str 3 T 3
Get a 5+ save for 11 Attacks
Hitting on 4 versus rnf
Hitting on 5 versus Lord/Hero


Opponent is unit with a ws of 4 a str of 4 and a toughness of 4 and always strikes first.

6 attacks at 3+ get 4 hits. Wounding on 3+ is 2.66 wounds.
Versus hand weapon you get 5+ or 0.88 saves
Lets round and get 3 wounds and 1 save. that gives you 2 dead skellies with 3 attacking back (including champion).

6 attacks at 3+ get 4 hits. Wounding on 3+ is 2.66 wounds.
Versus spear you get 6+ or .44 saves
Lets round again and kill 3 and no saves. now you have 3 dead skellies and 7 attacking back (including champion)

Hand weapons retuning attack is 1.5 hits and .5 wounds with a 4+ save or .25 chance that you will kill an opponent.

Spear attacking back is 3.5 hits and 1.75 wounds with a 4+ save or .875 final wounds (rounding makes it one)

So the spears have a 7 to 2 better chance of wounding an opponent then the hand weapons. Are more likely to get wounded at a 4 to 3 ratio

Results
Hand weapons +3 Ranks +Banner + 0 Kills
Opponent +3 ranks + Banner + 2 Kills
Opponent wins by 2

Spears +3 Ranks +Banner + 1 Kill
Opponent + 3 Ranks +Banner + 3 Kills
Opponent wins by 2

Next round Opponent has a +3 rank bonus versus hand weapons and +2 versus spears. The spears have 2 ranks as well and there fore are even with the opponent except for wounds. Where as Hand weapons are down by one rank bonus before the next round of close combat starts.

This is of course assuming that the skellies got charged and did not get danced after they were in close comabt during the magic phase.

If the Skeletons charge then the spears get 5 less attacks in the first round. But shis should mean they do just as much damage as the hand weapons and may take 1 more wound when attacked back by the opposing unit.

Given all of this information why is it so terrible to have skeletons with Spears?

I look forward to opinions, comments, and explanations.

I have been playing Vamps since 4th ed (when they were Undead). I don't think I have ever won a game by my skeletons killing something in combat. A skeletons place is to tie up a unit and win on combat resolution or be a delivery vehicle for a hitty vampire. That's why even though I have a unit of skeletons with spears (I think they look good) I usually choose for them to use HW and shield. Reducing the number of casualties will win you more combats than trying to cause wounds with a WS 2, S3 model.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Ozymandias wrote:I have been playing Vamps since 4th ed (when they were Undead). I don't think I have ever won a game by my skeletons killing something in combat. A skeletons place is to tie up a unit and win on combat resolution or be a delivery vehicle for a hitty vampire. That's why even though I have a unit of skeletons with spears (I think they look good) I usually choose for them to use HW and shield. Reducing the number of casualties will win you more combats than trying to cause wounds with a WS 2, S3 model.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

What he said.

Against S4T4 high armor save units the spears are not your best option. The 5+ AS you get for LA/HW+shield in melee is, as you've shown, twice as effective as the 6+ AS you get for LA/shield+spear (The S4 is already taken into effect).

But what if you fight against S3 or S5+ Troops?

You AS is denied, or not changed that drastically (1/2 vs. 1/3 or 1/6 vs. none). The attacks of the additional skellies don't seem much, but against some troops, they can turn the tide in your favor. I always use at least one unit of spearskellies in my army. In doubt, you can always choose to use your HW/shield combo.

Greets
Schepp himself

Also, don't forget that spears cost more. Now, if you do a min squad that's only 10 points. But that could be another dire wolf. Or half a bat. Multiply by 3-4 units and it makes a difference.

Zoned

Half a bat is useful for taking out half a cannon crewman.