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I run 2 squads of scouts. 1 in a Storm and the other is a 10 man squad of sniper rifles and a missile launcher. I am considering putting Telion in the Sniper Squad. I know what he does on paper and there is a debate about him giving his squad stealth. I'm looking for actual tactical advice and experience using him. Thanks

My 2 theroy cents - he does give the squad stealth and the larger unit makes him most worthwhile (as your effectively replacing 3 points per model for the camo cloaks.) couple that with a techpriest or MotF and your looking at 2+ cover saves which isnt somthing to be sniffed at. The rocket launcher + guidence is good for last resort Anti-tank with a v.good chance to hit. Although 8 snipers with rending abilties to get 10-13 armour pen and telions 11-14 rending (incl the rockets 9-14) can also count as a decent factor.

Hes costing you 20 points after camo cloak deductions and he adds in some nice wargear. Well worth it on any large scout squad.

Sorry I could help with actual advice from experience. . .

I pretty much use him for his specials. I have targeted individual models in a unit like banner carriers (especially for teleporters) and special weapon models. I have also used him to lend his hit roll to another unit.
However it is very clear to me that Telion does no confer his Stealth ability to the unit he is in. The IC rules on page 48 of the lil rule book states that an IC does not confer a special rule upon the unit unless the special rule (like Stubborn) specifically states it. Stealth does not state an IC with the ability confers it to a unit they join like Stubborn does. However, if the scout unit does not have Stealth, Telion should lose it if he joins the unit.
I would say if your option is to get Telion or almost 4 more sniper scouts. 4 rolls of 4+ beats 1 roll of 2+. It even beats Telion's 2 attacks at 2+ by about 34% probability.

The big benefit with Telion is his ability to allocate his wounds though.

Telion has some nice abilities.
However, what can he achieve at the battle field?
My answer is not much what you can use for winning the battle.
Drop him.

I think Tellion could be described as being an extra bit of flavour. He won't win the game but in a well balanced game he could give you some nice options.

I'm fielding him in a squad of 6sniper scout and 1missile scout (8models inc Tellion) and plan to use him to help slow advancing enemy infantry or taking out specific squads leaving my other CC squads free to assualt other enemy squads or even polish off the one being attacked by Tellion.

I'm looking forward to using him a lot, but don't think he's something to shout about IMHO

Pavonis a couple things. Telion is not an independent character. So he can't join other units unless an Independent character joins the scout squad, in which case I can't remember if his rules say he can help an IC as well. The rule for stealth says "the unit adds 1 to their cover saves" I'm paraphrasing. It says nothing about it being on a model for model basis. Until it is FAQ'ed it appears he grants his unit stealth. You mentioned buying 4 more scouts instead. Your math didn't take in to account that the Stalker Pattern Bolter is a 2 shot weapon. He will hit almost everytime making it as effective as 4 scouts (they hit half the time) Its also strength 4.

DonkeyCannon wrote:Pavonis a couple things. Telion is not an independent character. So he can't join other units unless an Independent character joins the scout squad, in which case I can't remember if his rules say he can help an IC as well. The rule for stealth says "the unit adds 1 to their cover saves" I'm paraphrasing. It says nothing about it being on a model for model basis. Until it is FAQ'ed it appears he grants his unit stealth. You mentioned buying 4 more scouts instead. Your math didn't take in to account that the Stalker Pattern Bolter is a 2 shot weapon. He will hit almost everytime making it as effective as 4 scouts (they hit half the time) Its also strength 4.

So as long as one model in a unit has a special rule that applies to units the entire unit gets to benefit from it?

So if I take a model with terminator, who can Deep Strike, I can join him to a non-Terminator unit and then deep strike with them?


At best we have a grey area because one model (not the unit) has a special rule that is written as a unit special rule.


Scarab Swarms are swarms and therefore have the 'stealth' and 'vulnerable to blasts' special rules. When they are part of a unit that contains Tomb Spyders (who don't have these special rules) their FAQ states that only the Scarabs benefit from the Stealth cover save bonus.

That's how I personally would play Telion unless further clarification is presented via FAQ.

Telion is like a powerfist. He replaces the sgt in a 5man sniper squad. He doesnt maybe come with other squads. Nor do scout sgt's get to join any other squad/unit.

He obviously confers his own unit the stealth rule. And in a 10man squad hes pretty cheap and improves the ability of the squad to fullfil it roles alot.

@ Pavonis: Please please pleeease read the rules before you give advice on them.

You mention the Voice of Experience rule. In that rule it does say ... in his squad ...


Now can you guess how that applies to the rule? Unless you ment (and my apologies) another model in his squad.. Hopefully.

I see where you are going yakface. However a Tomb Spider is a monsterous creature and scarab swarms are swarms. I don't think its a good example.

We aren't talking about joining a unit either. He is an upgrade character. He cannot join or leave his squad.

Stealth "All of the unit's cover saves are improved by +1." - 5th Edition Rule Book

It does not say a model with Stealth....

It is grey, but by RAW they have stealth.

By RAW in the handbook, by RAW in the 5ed SM dex too - as there is no point for a unit upgrade to have an ability that does nothing. It doesnt make sense.

Then we can go onto RAI as it being obvious but RAW in the SM dex is pretty clear cut. The only grey is the colour and bais misunderstanding.

The reason he has stealth is so you don't have to pay the 3 points to get him the +1 cover save when buying a camo cloak.

The problem with Telion granting the squad stealth is that there is no where in the rules that say he grants his squad stealth.

Show me a place that says that one model with a special rule grants it to a squad?

The issue with Tellions Stealth to the unit or not has been discussed in depth here for those wishing to continue it.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/220649.page

No point starting it all again guys

I like to use him in my 10 man scout squad.
He has killed an assault cannon termie with a rend shot.
Guided the rocket launcher scout in destroying a predator tank with a side armor shot.
In that game I had 4 rocket launcher devs firing on the front armor. So he had to turn the tank some way.

I did all that in 2 rounds of shooting.
I like having a 50 point vindicare as a scout sargent.