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Im starting an ork army and am drawing up my lsit before i start reaching into my wallet, which will hopefully have money in it, to buy some models and I was just wandering if i was headed onto the right track with this army?
Tried to make it mobile so no footslogging orks, and am hoping the 20 orks in the battlewagon can cause havoc if they get to the front
and wazdakka and the bikers for a very annoying flanking unit, turboboost then 4 str8 shoots from wazdakka and they count as a troop choice for claiming objectives... but enough of that i guess, any feed back would be welcome especially about the dread's which im thinking of changing but not sure to what

Orks 1500pt Army
Wazdakka Gutsmek

Troops
20 Boyz
2 Big Shoota's
1 Nob
w/power klaw
w/Boss pole
total: 170
**Mounted in Battlewagon**

12 Boyz
1 Big Shoota
1 Nob
w/power klaw
w/Boss pole`
**Mounted in Trukk
Grot Riggers
Boarding Plank

12 Boyz
1 Big Shoota
1 Nob
w/power klaw
w/Boss pole`

**Mounted in Trukk
Grot Riggers
Boarding Plank


9 warbikers
1 Nob
w/power klaw
w/Boss pole`

Fast Attack
4 Deff Kopta's
w/Twin linked Rokkits

Heavy Support
1 Battle Wagon
Wreckin Ball
Zzap Gun
4 Rokkit Launcha's
Grot Riggers
Boarding Plank

deff Dread
2 Big Shoota's
Grot Riggers

deff Dread
2 Big Shoota's
Grot Riggers

Army total = 1494

Well, I think there's some kind of taboo against posting individual points costs for everything but a few of my suggestions.

1.) get rid of the extra bulk. Grot riggers, boarding planks and wrekkin' balls don't really seem to add much to the ork mantra of 'a lot o killin'.

2.) I wouldn't run Deff Dredds. I'd definitely replace them with Killa Kanz and probably heavier weaponry than Big Shootas. You don't really need more dakka, just better dakka.

3.) I'd try to either beef up the unit of 20 foot sloggin' boyz or reduce them and toss in another trukk. That way you're sure to have something get to the enemy.

4.) Wazdakka is cool and I like him.

5.) Do the Deffkoptas perform some task which something else in the army is incapable of? I tend to use them sparingly and only when I don't really have much to do with the extra points. I'm not convinced they're a solid choice when they have no higher than ld7 and cannot recoup from running.

I'd drop the Deff Dreads and get some Nob Bikes are great 4+/4+ save and it's invulnerable to multiple power klaws and a painboy is fun in close combat

Didnt mean to leave the individual points I just copy and pasted my list on here, so thats my bad
the 20 boyz im putting in the battle wagon dont like the idea of them footslogging
put the grot Riggers on the trukks merely because i have a history of getting my vehicles immobilised
and the boarding planks and wrecking balls are for any vehicles i come close enough to kill in CC without the nob/boyz getting out of the truck
I do admit to some rethinking of the deff kopta's who are there because i wanted a unit to be able to flank and tank hunt with re-rolls on their rokkits they have a better chance to hit and for some reason i like the idea of them... but any other input on that would be appreciated, has anyone else tried using kopta's as a tank hunting unit?
When i go to 1750 points im hoping to get a now biker unit in, I will prob take out the dreads and try to get a nob biker squad in there then increase it for 1750

and wasdakka is awesome

*nob biker unit

First go in, edit your post and remove the point costs for each of your items/upgrades and whatnot. Just include a total cost per unit. Eventually an admin will see it and do it for you, but spare them the trouble.

Ok, now that is out of the way on to the list. As usual take everything with a fist full of salt since it is my opinion.

I think your lists is low on Boyz. At 1500 I start a minimum of 60 boyz and I often feel that is too lean. Boyz get the job done and there are precious few problems you cannot solve with the application of more Ork boyz. Your footslogers look good assuming they are shoota boyz. If you want to beef them up to 30 that is always good, but I find 20 to be a very workable number and is the common amount I use for my footsloging boyz. Lose the planks and grot riggers on the Trukks. Trukks tend to evaporate under any sort of menacing glare or strong enemy fire. The opportunity to use grot riggers will be precious few since usually your trukk will go up in a blaze of glory. The plank is pretty gimmicky in my opinion. Usually I want my boyz out of their trukk and in someone's face smashing it in. If it becomes necessary to take out a tank with my nob (which they regularly are called upon to do), I'll just get out of the trukk if I have too, but more commonly they are already on foot at that point anyways. My personal two favorite upgrades for my trukks are Red Paint Job and Reinforced Ram. The Red Paint obviously because it is always better to get where you're going faster. The reinforced ram is useful to me because I like to feel capable of rocketing through terrain if the situation calls for it, especially if that is the only way I can get my boyz up in someone's face and in charge range. Personally I would lose the Big Shoota out of the trukk mobs simply because it doesn't get much use in my opinion and is almost enough to buy an additional boy for a unit.

I have enjoyed my Deff Koptas immensely, but they do suffer from morale issue so be aware of that as you use them. If you want to find points somewhere I would pull a kopta or two for those points.

What is your plan for your Battle Wagon? I cannot decide if it wants to be a main line battle tank or a troop transport. If the former, then loose the Zzap gun, and rokkit launchers and go for a kill cannon. A tank can only fire one gun on the move so you might as well make it a big gun. Plus, the Killcannon suffers less from the Ork's lousy BS, while the Rokkits and Zzap gun will all suffer from it. Also if it is going to be a battle tank, give it an 'ard case. Don't forget the coat of red paint here too. 1" is always handy. If you Battle Wagon plans to be a troop carrier, lose the guns since it won't use them much, go for armored plates, maybe a deff roller, some red paint and maybe a single big shoota to sacrifice to the weapon damaged table result. Give your Battle Wagon a job and stick to it.

Deff Dreads are cool in my opinion, but Killa Kans are better in most cases. If you want a Deff Dred I might keep one, and give it two Skorchas instead of Big Shootas, but that is a matter of taste personally. Skorchas don't care about his lousy BS and I wouldn't be out anything by running every turn until I was in close to initiate the burn-y dance and assault and get to krumpin!

Edit: Headache = Poor Writing Skills

What he said.

First of all thanks benthos for drawing my attention to the edit... i must admit this is prob the first forum i ahve bothered joining so to my shame i was unaware of the edit.. but that has been done.
Thanx for all the advice especially that last bit benthos was really helpfull, will be changing my trucks adding boyz and also changing my heavy support options around especially the battlewagon

One last question, is getting looted vehicles with skorkas worth it as they are relatively cheaper then a dread with a skorcka think there about 50 points or so and they can trasnport 12 models

Thanx for all the help guys

Vagrant Benthos wrote:
What is your plan for your Battle Wagon? I cannot decide if it wants to be a main line battle tank or a troop transport. If the former, then loose the Zzap gun, and rokkit launchers and go for a kill cannon. A tank can only fire one gun on the move so you might as well make it a big gun. Plus, the Killcannon suffers less from the Ork's lousy BS, while the Rokkits and Zzap gun will all suffer from it. Also if it is going to be a battle tank, give it an 'ard case. Don't forget the coat of red paint here too. 1" is always handy. If you Battle Wagon plans to be a troop carrier, lose the guns since it won't use them much, go for armored plates, maybe a deff roller, some red paint and maybe a single big shoota to sacrifice to the weapon damaged table result. Give your Battle Wagon a job and stick to it.

I think the KK is ordinance which means you can't move and shoot it, but it is entertaining watching take out a squad of space marines, so I must say it is normally worht point.

Also using the BW as troop carriers is Super effective as well.

TalosNB wrote:One last question, is getting looted vehicles with skorkas worth it as they are relatively cheaper then a dread with a skorcka think there about 50 points or so and they can trasnport 12 models

I memory serves Looted Wagons aren't Fast vehicles, unfortunately I lack my codex here at work so I cannot double check that. Assuming they aren't fast vehicles I would probably not bother strapping Skorchas to them or taking them at all. Here is my rationale: 1.) A Looted Wagon suffers from the "Don't Touch Dat Button" rule and are unpredictable as a result. I'm all for random results (I do love my SAG and Weirdboy after all), but that rule just irritates me. 2.) Because the vehicle isn't Fast it can only move 6" (7" with Red Paint) and fire one weapon. If the vehicle moves 12" (13" with Red Paint) it cannot fire any weapons. A dread on the other hand can fire two weapon systems and has the option to run in lieu of firing and since its skorchas are short ranged it can freely run until it gets into close range. While the dread might be slower than a Looted Wagon, it has a more clear focus in a battle in my mind and it is a threat in close combat to troops and vehicles alike (DCCWs never make vehicles happy). 3.) A Trukk is safer ride for boyz if I want to transport them on the cheap with its ramshackle rule. Now if you want to take something like Burna Boyz who don't have a dedicated Transport (oh how I wish they did, and oh how I wish MANz had boss poles) the Looted Wagon is a potential option if you cannot swing for a Battle Wagon transport.

Now if you want to get Skorchas on a vehicle (never a bad thought) consider Skorcha Warbuggies. Slap a Red Paint job on them and you have a nasty little vehicle that can race around the table 13" and still fire its Skorcha. It doesn't make many friends so expect it to develop a shot lifespan. In fact take two (or three) if you want to go that route. Since I wished for two other things I will now publicly wish for new Warbuggy/Wartrakk models.

Attack_Squig wrote:

I think the KK is ordinance which means you can't move and shoot it, but it is entertaining watching take out a squad of space marines, so I must say it is normally worht point.

I lack my rulebook at the moment so I cannot quote page numbers or anything, but I am pretty certain you can move and fire Ordnance Weapons. You cannot fire any other weapons if you fire an Ordnance Weapon if memory serves. I believe you are thinking of Barrage Weapons which require you to stand still, although I think Barrage Ordnance can fire on the move, but they don't count as Barrage Weapons so the source of the attack for cover save purposes isn't determined from the center of the blast, but rather from the attacking model as normal. I'm fuzzier on the Barrage Ordnance since I haven't used any in 5th Edition. I'll have to review my rulebook later this afternoon when I return home.

I wasnt to sure about the Looted wagons but that does help me set them aside, I still like the idea of running 20 orks up with a BW but have decided to ahve 2 groups of 20 foot slogging it, have redone my list a fair bit. And i agree the kk or the boom gun the looted wagon gets isnt to bad especially for only 105 puts i think but only armour 11 :(

It is 105 points for an open top AV 11 vehicle that can periodically lurch forward so I have never been attracted to it as an option. If I were to take one I would probably give it an 'ard case just to help when it gets hit, but AV 11 is never going to stand up to much punishment. Especially from drop-podded dreads, deep striking terminators, out flanking warwalkers and any other host of unpleasant things that can easily get into your back field. That aside, if you want to take one then by all means go for it. One of the most appealing aspects of Orks and the hobby in general is to have fun and if you think it would be cool to take a looted wagon then go for it.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to run 20 boyz up into someone's face with a Battlewagon. Just as soon as I have one assembled with a deff rolla I plan to do it on a regular basis. I might even fill it full of shoota boyz so the Battlewagon will be racing around with 20 lunatics with shootas firing wildly at everything around them. The mental imagery alone makes me smile.

I have redone my list after heeding the wise advice given to me by my fellow dakka dakkians and after battling a ork horde army on the weekend. So here is my redone list, it seems pretty good so far going to start testing it after xmas when i will have half the army and can us some standin's

1500 pts

Wazdakka Gutsmek
Big Mek
Burna
Kustom force field
eavy armour


30 Boyz
(armed with Shoota's)
3 Big Shoota's
1 Nob
w/power klaw
w/Boss pole`

30 Boyz
(armed with Shoota's)
3 Big Shoota's
1 Nob
w/power klaw
w/Boss pole`

12 Boyz
1 Nob
w/power klaw
w/Boss pole`

**Mounted in Trukk
Reinforced ram


12 Boyz
1 Nob
w/power klaw
w/Boss pole`

**Mounted in Trukk
Reinforced ram

9 warbikers
1 Nob
w/power klaw
w/Boss pole`

4 Deff Kopta's
w/Twin linked Rokkits

for 1750 points i just add these kommando's

15 Kommando's
2 Burna's
Snikrot

Looks good to me. I might be tempted to split those 4 deffkoptas into two groups of 2 koptas. It would give up another kill point, but it would allow for more freedom to engage multiple targets and it would force my opponents to have to destroy two different targets. But, it would give up another kill point so it is a matter of taste really.

I love my kommandos, I expect that 15 boy Kommando unit with Snikrot and the two burnas is gonna make a lot of friends.

I would recommend taking some zzap guns. They only cost 30 pts each, they always hit, have a strength of 2 D6, and AP2. They have come in very handy in the games I have played.

Billdozer wrote:I would recommend taking some zzap guns. They only cost 30 pts each, they always hit, have a strength of 2 D6, and AP2. They have come in very handy in the games I have played.

I was thinking of putting either 3 kannon's or zzap guns with extra grots in but want to see how my death kopta's run first, there isn t anything else in the list i would want to remove to get the points to put the artillary in. I have a feeling that unless I put a PK on one of those death kopta's they may not be that as good as i want them to be but they are scouts and get to turbo boost before anyone moves, if i remember correctly.. i could be completely wrong wouldnt be the first time lol

I am pretty sure Zapp guns do not auto hit any longer. I don't personally like them and don't know of anyone that runs them at all. I don’t' want to discourage you if you want to run zapp guns but also don't want you to spend the money on them only to find out they don't auto hit.

If you are going to run a gun battery the Kannon’s are usually the best option.

Troops
20 Boyz
2 Big Shoota's
1 Nob
w/power klaw
w/Boss pole
total: 170
**Mounted in Battlewagon**

Good strong sized mob. Nob with standard set up. I would drop the Big Shootas in favor of Rokkits if you REALLY want special weapons in the squad. I find that I have left the special weapons off of any mounted units in this new edition as you can't fire out of the vehicle if it moves over 6" which is almost certain as an ork. You need to be in combat asap and slowing down to get 2 rokkit shots or 6 big shoota shots a turn on the way in is a waste. I get my Rokkit shots form my Trukks.

12 Boyz
1 Big Shoota
1 Nob
w/power klaw
w/Boss pole`
**Mounted in Trukk
Grot Riggers
Boarding Plank

Trukk Boyz work well enmasse. 2 Trukk Boy mobs, even with the BW as a distraction will struggle to not get destroyed before they ever drop their payload. Nob looking good in here as well but the special weapon I would just completely drop. Trukk Boyz are meant for one thing...close combat. They need to get there asap and the extra attack in close combat will pay off greater than the shot. The sad thing with Trukk Boyz in the new edition is that 12 Orks will hit their opponent and crumble while doing a few wounds. Most the time, even if you do win, you will be 3-4 strong and will die to left over shooting. They NEED support and you basically have to hit each unit with 2 mobs to come out decisively on top. To fit more in drop the Riggers and Boarding Plank. Riggers are only worth it on Battlewagons imho and Boarding Planks are a waste because the trukk isn't able to survive any amount of focused firepower so it will never be able to be used for its purpose with any great consistency. The only upgrades I take on my Trukks are Rokkits and Reinforced Ram so I can barrel through terrain like it doesn't exist. The shortest route the the enemy is in a straight line .

9 warbikers
1 Nob
w/power klaw
w/Boss pole`

Not bad, they have their uses, but suffer from the same problem that plagues "Speed Freek" style lists: Low leadership that gets modified to fast by the way of casualties. Also, the amount of points you lose to a failed leadership check thanks to the bosspole, if you fail the armor save, makes me cringe. Only bikers I run are Nob Bikers because they are more durable.

Fast Attack
4 Deff Kopta's
w/Twin linked Rokkits

Since they took their ability to score away I haven't found a use for them in my lists. More boyz is ALWAYS a better option. In my 1500 I run 4 Trukk Boy squads and in 1850 5 squads.

Heavy Support
1 Battle Wagon
Wreckin Ball
Zzap Gun
4 Rokkit Launcha's
Grot Riggers
Boarding Plank

Drop the Wrekin Ball. If you want the Zzap then drop the rokkits and take cheaper Big Shootas to absorb weapon destroyed results. If you are using it as a transport then drop the Boarding Plank, give it Armor Plates and keep your Grot Riggers.

deff Dread
2 Big Shoota's
Grot Riggers

deff Dread
2 Big Shoota's
Grot Riggers

Deff Dreads won't be able to keep up with your force. If you are intent on keeping them I would just take them as CC Dreds and give them Armor Plates as well so they are ensured that stunned results won't keep them form joining your units.

--------------------------------------------------

The key to playing a speed freek force, which is my main army , is numbers. You are going to be inherently lower in numbers than your opponents. A marine player will have the ability to outnumber you :(. You have to rely on repetition in your list so you can withstand casualties and still have forces to do their job. Right now, if you lose one of your 12 man squads, which is highly probable, your close combat will be severely hindered. I am not counting the Dreds because they are not tooled out for max CC. A power fist will make short order of them, if they make it through the plethora of Medium Anti-Tank Fire.

You have a lot of contradictory choices. The roles of your troops are confused and not split every evenly. Don't take this offensively. It is merely my opinion as an Ork player since 1998 . The main problem with anything other than horde orks is the number of "scoring" units you have and their durability. They are all boyz, and gretchin if you feel like wasting points in a speed freeks list, and their main job is combat without a single doubt and you have to hit one squad hard as hell and fast as hell to get a win out of it. This leaves you extremely vulnerable to 2/3 of the scenarios. The loot counter missions are going to give you some serious troubles unless you spam Trukk Boyz. A smart opponent will put counters where you don't want to be making you choose: close combat or try to hold out at range with small squads and a fragile army. To hope to counter this you need repetition so if a few boyz do survive they can move on to praying they can hold an objective. That is why I mount my Warboss and run him with a unit of 6 Nob Bikers taken as troops. 1 Nob Bikers and 5 Trukk Boyz as scoring units is a force to be stopped.

Kej wrote:[b]
The key to playing a speed freek force, which is my main army , is numbers. You are going to be inherently lower in numbers than your opponents. A marine player will have the ability to outnumber you :(. You have to rely on repetition in your list so you can withstand casualties and still have forces to do their job. Right now, if you lose one of your 12 man squads, which is highly probable, your close combat will be severely hindered. I am not counting the Dreds because they are not tooled out for max CC. A power fist will make short order of them, if they make it through the plethora of Medium Tank Anti-Tank.

You have a lot of contradictory choices. The roles of your troops are confused and not split every evenly. Don't take this offensively. It is merely my opinion as an Ork player since 1998 . The main problem with anything other than horde orks is the number of "scoring" units you have and their durability. They are all boyz, and gretchin if you feel like wasting points in a speed freeks list, and their main job is combat without a single doubt and you have to hit one squad hard as hell and fast as hell to get a win out of it. This leaves you extremely vulnerable to 2/3 of the scenarios. The loot counter missions are going to give you some serious troubles unless you spam Trukk Boyz. A smart opponent will put counters where you don't want to be making you choose: close combat or try to hold out at range with small squads and a fragile army. To hope to counter this you need repetition so if a few boyz do survive they can move on to praying they can hold an objective. That is why I mount my Warboss and run him with a unit of 6 Nob Bikers taken as troops. 1 Nob Bikers and 5 Trukk Boyz as scoring units is a force to be stopped.

That was the first list i have posted since then have redone and posted another following the helpful advice of my fellow forum members. But as a new ork player iam very ready to heed the wisdom that veteran ork players can give me

I hoping it is more durable but i am still thinking about the deff kopta's either putting a PK in the squad to make its tank killing options better or to just drop the squad for either a squad of kannons or an extra trukk with boyz.
The two 30 strong squads move up with the mek or hold objectives on or near my end of table while trukks and wazdakka with the bikes run up the side and then if its 1750 snikrot comes in from behind, and wazdakka isnt bad on tanks ether not just with a PK but also with 4 str 8 shots that can be used after turbo boosting.. but my main dilemma is what to do with the those damn kopta's, keep them or boot them..

I saw the second list right after I posted and I didn't want to completely retype because it was still valid knowledge for some of your choices on your second list as well. That was alot of typing

The second list overall looks a lot harder and has more durable threats. You definitely have numbers.

As for the Deff Koptas, I don't run them. I have 9 of the models, 6 old Gorka Morka style and 3 new, but since they can no longer turbo boost in and score objectives at the last moment anymore I have found them to be below par. Sure, they could possibly kill something. That can be said for any squad you can field; however, are you just looking to kill or are you looking at the other factors I mentioned in my above post. They are not useless, but I find more use out of more boyz, or even skorcha buggies, as the change in the way templates work now (ie. count all wounds before you roll) can really force a Torrent of Fire quickly and at good AP with Ignores Cover .

It was quite abit of writing, but it was appreciated
I was hoping to use them as distraction that can also take out tanks...
but after having read the codex abit more im not so sure anymore
so am tossing up between another squad of boyz in a truck or a 3 kannons to pester enemy tanks
maybe some bikes as well not sure yet.. so any posts of wise orkish tactics would be valued
maybe not as long though.. just to save hurting your fingers of course

The two best things orks have to deal with armor are Loota’s and a biker warboss. The next best thing is any nob with a power claw.
Deffkopta’s so far when running them you should usually keep a few things in mind. They are a little pricey for what they do and bring to the table. Running a squad of one doesn’t really give you a realiable anti tank unit. Running two to three helps but means when one dies you are taking a leadership test. Having the unit flee because one died is horrible IMHO.
You can run them in a unit of 5 as a tie up unit in assault, or I have several times used a unit of 5 with big shoota’s as they actually put out pretty good firepower. They are pricey again for what they bring to the table and usually in games I tend to find that the points are better spent on something more solid to the army. So they aren’t bad per say, just aren’t something I would build around the core of most armies. This is just what I have seen and tested by running them.

Bikes suffer from the leadership issue listed above as well but have the option of the bosspole that the kopta's don’t have. To avoid the leadership test right away you are running into almost the same issue of maybe you should be running a max bike squad or nothing at all. Not to mention bikes are pricey like kopta’s as well.

Just some things to keep in mind.

Went down to the local gaming store today and got to see some ork players battling it out with marines, both times i think. After this and a carfeul think i have decided to drop, wazdakka, the bikers and the death kopta's to be replaced with:
1 warboss
8 Nobz in a battle wagon
3 Big gun's - kannon's

will take up wazdakka later on after i become experienced in the way of the waaaagh
shall see how this goes and then if it turns out to be a fail... well then you might hear me asking for help yet again
thanx for all the help guys especially: Drkmorals, Kej, and Benthos