1500pt Iron clad MotF list..

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**Razerous**

Right.. im rambling on about FNP and I glance to pg 73 of the BRB and read up on walker CC rules. Made me think.

HQ
==
Master of the Forge -100

Troops
====

5man scout squad
+ 4 snipers = 85

5man scout squad
+ 4 snipers = 85

10man Tactical squad
+ Drop pod = 210
+ Plasma Cannon
+flamer

Elites
====

Ironclad
+ Drop pod = 180
+H.flamer
Ironclad
+ Drop pod = 180
+H.flamer
Ironclad
+ Drop pod = 170

Heavy Support (MotF)
=========

Ironclad
+ Drop pod = 170

Ironclad
+ Drop pod = 170

Ironclad
+ Drop pod = 170

= 1500

Um.. 4 dreds podding in 1st turn. Im not gonna go near the deal of empty drop pods (with the tac squads although Ive read the rules & it seems you can)

Keeping the meltas for 1st turn armor popping and the SB because I cant afford to otherwise. So, armors popped, they charge in turn 2.

Troops are a very low in 1500pts but 6 ironclads... scarifices have to be made. They capture stuff.. Opinions?

**Black Blow Fly**

Very nice. There are armies out there that will shred this.

G

**Razerous**

Oh yeah? Besides things which arent on the board 1st-2nd turn to deny the usefulness of podding in..

Wraithlords? MC's? I cudnt think of many troops that would do amazingly well vs.

Enlighten me

**Black Blow Fly**

Anything with a melta can vap a dreadnaught with one shot. The melta is 2d6 to pen at 1/2 range and +1 on the armor penetration table... so if it pens that is a 50% chance to destroy.

Some armies will have lots of problems against all that armor, but others will torch you.

G

**Razerous**

Umm.. those things get assualted. But ya, meltas are no fun. Still, against shooty baddness, they keep coming quiet well & assualt (& then are nigh-on invincible).

And there is 6 of them.. Six.. that and the last one you paint will be pretty top notch!

**jp400**

Yeah, meltas are 2d6 at half range.... so you have to get withing 6 inches.

If done right at 1500 pts you would freaking own with this list. Yes stuff can beat it, but who in there right mind is going to sit at home the night before and go, "Hey, I think ill build a list that can stop tons of dreads by turn 2 and pray that nobody will bring a horde list!" ?????

**DarthDiggler**

You will do much better than most people think. Are you podding into a field of 20 meltaguns? What hope does the 20 meltagun army have against the ever popular Ork Horde list? None.

Marine melta's might pen 50% of the time, but half of those are negated when the Ironclad pop's smoke. So now a marine melta has a 25% chance of penning and a less than that chance to destroy the Ironclad. On top of that you will drop in 4 of them, probably in such a way that a foot melta won't be with 2d6 range.

No I think this list will be much more difficult to deal with than originally thought. Multiple MC's might give you a problem though. I would worry more about losing Ironclads in HtH at initiative 5 than getting taken out by Meltaguns.

**Razerous**

Id drop them in behind enemy armour/walkers (litterally, ontop) to go for the 2d6 melta on its arm (Posssibly one normal dred for that nice multi melta & its range)

MC's will just loose wounds to ironclads. Not that much is str8+ (Im thinking tooled up fexes, which arent too nessicary with thier ranged weapons, wraithlords.. demons?) where as even @ str 10 youve gotta roll a 4 to pen and then it gets to ignore Shaken & stunned (thanks to Extra armour counts stunned as shaken) and immoblished simply reduces its A by 1 to a minium of edit: 2, see below.)

Grenades on a immoblised walker @ the start of combat would be a bit sad.

They will always have a min 2 A's (becuase of the and/or part of the rule on p73 of the BGB) -until it start loosing arms

and a weapon destroyed result isnt the end of the world as its got 2 Dred CC weps. so itll retain its str 10 goodness for a lil longer.

& They either win combat and run things down or they keep fighting. No loosing for walkers.

Things like haywire grenades/wraith wep/d-cannon & reguardless of AV weapons would be more of a threat. Aswel as storm shields termies with massed PF - but then you just throw two Ironclads at it.

The real weakness of this list (and lists like these) is the poor, not terrible, troop element.

**Regwon**

Razerous wrote:Id drop them in behind enemy armour/walkers (litterally, ontop) to go for the 2d6 melta on its arm (Posssibly one normal dred for that nice multi melta & its range)

MC's will just loose wounds to ironclads. Not that much is str8+ (Im thinking tooled up fexes, which arent too nessicary with thier ranged weapons, wraithlords.. demons?) where as even @ str 10 youve gotta roll a 4 to pen and then it gets to ignore Shaken & stunned (thanks to Extra armour counts stunned as shaken) and immoblished simply reduces its A by 1 to a minium of edit: 2, see below.)

Grenades on a immoblised walker @ the start of combat would be a bit sad.

They will always have a min 2 A's (becuase of the and/or part of the rule on p73 of the BGB) -until it start loosing arms

and a weapon destroyed result isnt the end of the world as its got 2 Dred CC weps. so itll retain its str 10 goodness for a lil longer.

& They either win combat and run things down or they keep fighting. No loosing for walkers.

Things like haywire grenades/wraith wep/d-cannon & reguardless of AV weapons would be more of a threat. Aswel as SS & massed PF - but then you just throw two Ironclads at it.

The real weakness of this list (and lists like these) is the poor, not terrible, troop element.

MCs roll 2d6 for armour pen in combat, and will wipe the floor with your dreads. you just cant put down enough wounds before they kill you. meltas are also a big problem for you, not because people will be building against this list, but because anyone with any sense will be giving meltas to their aggressive squads (if they can). finally you do risk getting bogged down in hordes while MC/Powerfists go to town on you.

but really those are the only three problems for you.

this army ends up being like demons. if you can weather the first turn of shooting you will probably do well. i would drop the sniper rifles on your scouts to try and get heavy flamers on your 4 first turn ironclads. they will get rid of lots of horde on the first turn, which can cause you problems otherwise, and are far better than a storm bolter. your biggest strength is in your dreads, and you scouts are likely to have little effect on the game anyway.

i like armies like this because you dont see them very often and they can give you a run for your money if you dont expect them (which most people dont). just add the flamers and i think you will do well.

**Razerous**

A very very good point about MC 2d6 pen, I knew it.. just forgot to remember it...

A MC with high ws, high Intv- will do very well hence why the snipers would be best left on.

You dont really want your troops near much if it can be helped and the rifles allow shots at longish range + are useful against things like MC's

This list is extremely tight, it needs the tac-squad drop pod to A: beef up the tiny weeny troop-choice section and b: allow that fourth dred to come in turn 1 (First player turn)

40 points.. hmm.. The only way is to remove a scout squad, use the 40-60 odd points to hand out h.flamers and then youve got 45-25 spare. Not a great loss firepower wise but makes things a fair bit more inflexible & in danger of loosing scoring capability. But 1-2 flamers is doable, no rocket launchers on the scouts (less of a loss)

Due to the way in which the ironclad just shrugs off damage, only MCs, av-reguardless or 2d6 meltas will touch these guys. massed str 8+ hits to roll that double 6

Cheers for the good feedback. Man - im gonna have to start saving. 6 ironclads :( (Do you think a coke-can proxie would suffice

)

**Black Blow Fly**

I would just run 3 dreads at 1500. That way you don't have to tAke the MotF. Back in 4e my brother ran 5 - 6 dreadnaughts in a 1500 point BA list. You could field the regular dreadnaught as heavy support and Furiosos as elite. He always took Moriar, a special character dreadnaught, that was basically a hybrid between a venerable (WS5) and a Death Company dreadnaught. Back then BA dreADnaughts automatically had furious charge built in. Eventually I figured out how to beat his army in cloSE combat with Emperor's Children.

If you reAlly want to run 6 dreadnaughts in a 1500 point list then more power to you, but honestly I think you can craft a better list with just three. I would take venerAble and two Iron Clads.

One thing to remember About MCs is that they can still only destroy armor on a roll of 5 or 6... so I believe you can beat them Down with just three dreadnaughts.

G

**Razerous**

Tis a fair point. I made this list because I liked the idea of 4 dreds showing up turn 1. Which needs 3 more drop pods. Id move down to 5 pods or 3 or 1.

5pods could be interesting, with those two ironclads & venerable in pods plus two tac drop pods. Leaves 510 for hq, more troops and armour.

Id have so much more fun loosing with 6 ironclads than anything else. Plus im only having to deal with 14 seperate models or 6 seperate units

on turn 1!

Edit: Oh, a counter to this (and general podding/deep striking) is to set up you units on the egde of the board. This should force the player to deep strike out of that possible death zone of 12' which reduces the threat from alot of shooty (Sternguard shooty, melta, multi-melta 2d6) attacks and out of the pod charging although there are always those ballsie types out there.

**Black Blow Fly**

Drop pods are the best way to bring the big boys onto the battlefield. A safe way to come into a fire zone is to have your dreads disembark from the rear with the back armor facing the pod and pop smoke if necessary.

Have you thought about a squad of three scout bikers with a locator beacon and cluster mines. If you get the first turn they can turbo boost during their scout move and enable the beacon for your drop pods to lock onto. This should work roughly 50% of the time and you can build your drop pod wall to castle the dreads where you want. If you had some rhinos you could use to screen the big boys and keep enemy meltas out of 1/2 range.

G

**Razerous**

You make an interesting point good sir.. Any way those bikes can count as troops - or is it only normal SM bikers, with the captain as HQ. Its only really SM bike squads @ 5+ if I really wanna read the rules.

Never realised you could use the scouts like that - im used to foot slogging scouts. With the cluster mines, 2d6 str 4 rear armour hits? As it mentions the plural 'hits' when referring to a tank setting off the mines.

Ironclads >< Venerables >< Vanillia dreds ?? Which is better than Which? I originally went for the Ironclads due to longevity in CC

**wuestenfux**

Green Blow Fly wrote:Very nice. There are armies out there that will shred this.

G

Which one? Within 5 turns? Almost impossible thanks to the new armor penetration table.

**Razerous**

str 10 ap 1 with tank hunters skill. Roll 4's to penetrate, 3's to make go boom (or firedragons with the exarch skills -more shot and/or get within melta range)

Immobilise it and its effectively useless (unless on/near a objective) uuummm... Seer concil? Fortuned 4++ str 9 attacks would unsettle this thing.

You could always shoot it in the back. Works well with tanks.

Lists with v.fast troops could run rings & eat the small amounts of troops this list has. Wont budge the dreds tho.

**Thr33ifbyair**

This army would do really well, of course there are things that exist that will kill the dreds, but that is assuming all your favorite armor killers fill the army.

Also I am pretty sure the shock factor will help.... o hey first turn i have 4 dreds in my butt..... fuuuuuuuuuuuuuqk.

hah

It looks like that it will work in most cases and if you happen to face a sisters army with vulcan added you may still have fun!

**Razerous**

Im clumsy too.. I tend to knock over alot of the smaller minitures.. so again, bonous

**wuestenfux**

In recent games, I tried to kill Dreads and it was a nightmare.
DP charged a Dread with 5 attacks as MC, but could only immobilize it (on the charge).
Large Seer Council charged a Dread and inflicted only one penetrating hit. Meeh.

**Thr33ifbyair**

I forgot, how is it you have 6 elite choices? Something about taking them as heavy support? or?

**Razerous**

Master of the Forge (He loves his pretty 50 ton walkers he does) allows dreds, venerables and? ironclads to be taken as heavy support choices aswell as elites.

Or somthing like that. Yup, just checked. I shall edit accordinly.

I reeally really wanna play this now. Damn - im a poor student

Also how would a 1000pt vairent work hmmmm.

Really Wues.. thats pretty inspiring. I guess it cant be doomed. Oo... can it be lashed to show its backs to whatever needs be?

**Thr33ifbyair**

I feel you man, if there is one thing that makes me not pay attention its Excel and all the proper books on my lappy.

Horrible distraction.

**Black Blow Fly**

Meltas are the bane of armor. 2d6 armor penetration at half and destroy the dreads on a roll of 4+ on the armor penetration table.

I played an army with one venerable and two iron class this past weekend fielding BA. My army had eight meltas including Dante's perdition pistol which is basically a single handed meltagun. The two attack bikes with multi-meltas basically hung back and waited for the three dreads to drop in then aced one of the iron class. The venerable lost his DDCW to another melta and I charged it with three power fist packing furious charge... BOOM. The other iron clad was taken out from a melta safe inside a rhino. This all happened very quickly. My dice were hot but still it just goes to show.

G

**Razerous**

Meltas - avoid. Yes sir.. How about dropping to caste the lower floor of the/a scouts position, while it fires from higher up to remove those pesky bikes. I can deal with normal meltas.

Funnily enough, the best counters to these dreds are more dreds , either the chainfist/hammer dred CC wep or the multimelta on the dred -Podding in and either zapping or arrivig early and waiting for the ironclad to try the same with the shorter ranged melta.

Stay away from melta... Ill try and paint that in tiny letters on the back of one of the ironclads! But seriously (im mc sleepy) thanks, ill bear that in mind.