Palanquin/Ranks Question

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**MascisMan**

If I throw a hero on a Palanquin in the front rank of a unit of 26 Marauders (6 wide) do I count as having 5 total ranks?

**LunaHound**

not sure but i thought max benefiting rank is +3

**Bat Manuel**

You would have 5 ranks, but you do only count those 3 so it gives you a little buffer for losses.

**Negativemoney**

Just remember that when ranking everything up no rank can have more models in it than the one in front of it. so in your case it would look like this

MMHHMM
MMHHMM
MM.M.MM
MM.M.MM
MM.M.MM
MM.M

That is what it would look like with 26 Marauders. You would only need to have 23 for 5 Ranks (+3 Rank Bonus) or 28 to move it up to 6 Ranks.

Remember that you don't count spots but rather models in each rank to calculate rank bonus.

**jmurph**

That looks odd. Normally, you don't have gaps in your ranks. Under 6th, you counted the spaces occupied by larger bases. Thus 8 men + a horse= +1 rank bonus. For 7th, there hasn't been much clarification of whether that is still true. I still don't think you could have a gap, though, and instead would have to have the marauders 6 wide like so:
MMMMHH
MMMMHH
MMMMMM
MMMMMM
MMMMMM

+4 rank bonus

But most groups I have seen would count the following as valid:
MMMHH
MMMHH
MMMMM
MMMMM
MMMMM
MMMMM

+4 rank bonus

**Bat Manuel**

Here's a weird one that came up at the LGS....and is it legit

HHMMMM
HHMMM
MMMMM
MMMMM

This was brought up because the first rank needs 5 models to count as a rank, but the hero can take up space in the other ranks with his mount.

**Negativemoney**

I'm not sure where you get that one. I count it as 5,4,5,5 meaning that it is an illegal formation.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

From what I remember, the character displaces and replaces the same amount of models.

Ergo, a Cavalry base in an infantry unit would take up one place in the front rank, and one place in the second rank. An ogre sized base would take up two and two, and so on.

With the exception of the rearmost rank, which can be smaller, all ranks must be of similar *model* width. Ergo, if I have an ogre sized base in the front rank, and intend a 5 wide frontage, then the front rank would have 3 other models, as would the 2nd rank. The other ranks would need 5 models, with the exception as stated of the rear rank, which can be anywhere from 1 to 5 models.

**Mannahnin**

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/211816.page#293326

Mannahnin, May 2008 wrote: Everyone I've met and/or played against plays with the Chronicles 2004/ White Dwarf article as still applying. Or is a newbie and is confused as hell. Its being left out of the main book (and the darn FAQ!) is the single biggest and most annoying editorial oversight in 7th edition.

Basically that if a character on a larger base is in a unit, for rank bonuses he counts as being as many models as his base takes up the space of. With 20mm and 25mm infantry bases being considered interchangable.

So a character on a cav base in a block of 20mm or 25mm infantry counts as one model wide in each of the front two ranks. So there would only need to be 18 models in the unit (other than the character) to get full rank bonus.

A character on a 40mm or 50mm base counts as four 20mm or 25mm infantry (two models wide in each of the first two ranks) for ranks. A character on a 40mm or 50mm base counts as one model if within a unit on 40mm or 50mm bases, or two models if in a cavalry unit.

It's really simple, and makes sure that units on the table don't wind up in weird formations with the first rank or two wider just because there's a character in them.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/128182.page#128182

Mannahnin, Dec 2006 wrote: As noted, this one is a massive editing failure on GWs part which the players are discussing, and pretty much universally deciding to work around.

WH Chronicles 04 (actually reprinted from a WD, though I don't recall which issue) had a very simple and clear article, with diagrams, detailing that a character on a larger base counts as as many models as his base takes up space in place of, for purposes of rank bonus. So Skarsnik and Gobbla would count as three models in the first rank, and three models in the second rank, and a Goblin unit would only need another 14 models to claim full rank bonus (full ranks of 5 in the 3rd and 4th ranks, and only 2 more models each in the first and second in addition to Skarsnik & Gobbla).

There is really no excuse for this having not been added to the 7th edition rules. It's a gross oversight. Every player I know who is aware of said article is playing that it still applies. Otherwise this is literally not covered. And you wind up with stupid and aesthetically displeasing ideas like Mauleed's suggestion that you would need an additional 4 models in the first and second ranks of a Goblin unit to form full ranks with Skarsnik & Gobbla, thus creating a unit which is 140mm wide ONLY in the first two ranks, and 100mm wide in the ranks behind. This is pretty obviously not the way it's meant to work.

**Negativemoney**

Those where 6th edition rules the new rules state every model takes up one space.

**Mannahnin**

Which, in the case of Skarsnik & Gobbla, would result in the ridiculous consequence of a goblin unit 140mm wide for the first two ranks, and 100mm wide for the ones behind.

Please, I beg of you, if you ever get the chance- ask the designers if this is the intent.

I am convinced that the intention is for characters to fit into the unit without causing it to assume a bizarre non-rectangular shape.

**Negativemoney**

Mannahnin, you are talking about GW rules designers, I don't think they ever have any intent.

**jmurph**

I agree that it is an oversight Mannahnin, but, unfortunately, as NM points out the 7th edition rules refer to models, so strictly RAW, you do get some bizarre setups.

Fortunately, I have yet to run into a group that doesn't just use the Chronicles interpretation anyway.

**Mannahnin**

I’ve attended 3-4 GTs or national events (Adepticon) each year for the past three, and I’ve never seen it played any other way.