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So, I got a lionel train set for my nephews for xmas. One of those over expensive box sets where the engine talks and has it's own smoke lauchers and all that stuff.

For when they come for xmas I wanted to set it up and build a tabletop for it that they can also take home. What's a good way to do it? Do I want to flock it like I would a normal gaming board? I kind of worry that it will be touched a lot more than your average game table with sticky little kid fingers and I don't want the flock to come off and have my sister yell at me for giving her kids green hands. I'd also like it to be able to fold up so they can bring it home.. I was thinking 2 pieces of plywood with a couple of cheapy cabinet hinges connecting them on the underside so it will fold in half.

It's just going to be a flat surface, nothing too fancy at least not to begin with but overtime I hope they will add to it so i may have end up having to build more sections later, so I'd like it to be something easy enough to remember how I did it so new pieces will always look the same.

any ideas?

I would go for the folding table idea .. good one and space saving. Perhaps make it 3 x 5 for them.. I don't think they would appreciate the need for a 4 x 6.

Then let them use a green or tan felt cloth, or something similar, as grass.

Cheap, simple.. and they can tack it down on the underside with thumbtacks for no slippage.

-Porkuslime

green paint or green felt.
they also have grass paper which is basically flock glued to a roll of green paper and you roll it out on the train table.
personally i hate flock and grass paper simply because no matter how careful you are you always end up with flock scattered about.

if its the kind with a plastic roadbed you can get some small screws and screw it down to a piece of plywood maybe like 3/8 to 1/2 inch thick.
itll be heavy though. they can either lay it on the floor and play or get some 2x4's ans saw horses.

the table itself is honestly no different than what you'd want for a sturdy gaming table.

oh, i mentioned the roadbed. if it is the plastic kind those usually stay together pretty well without mounting it to the board.

"smoke launchers" LOL!

Maybe I'll go with just green paint to start with. I've seen the flocked paper before but I was afraid it would just be messy and end up ripped a lot. My nephews are 8 and 3.5. If they really get into it maybe I can build them something more elaborate later.

I don't think there's any kind of road bed, just generic tracks. The set I got is the Lionel NYC set, it was $279 most places but I have a really big 100 year old store nearyby that specializes in trains and they had it for $209 You can get lost in there though, there's so much stuff.. some single cars that are hundreds of dollars going back to like 1920.

I've used that green flock paper. In fact, I STILL use that green flock paper. My table used to be for an HO scale train set, and when I got into Warhammer, the tracks were still there for about a year. The board still looks good too!

When that board was built I remember running over it with a Dirt Devil which took care of most of that loose flock. Sure, there's still the odd green fleck that comes off.

However...

That board is now 20 years old!

hmm.. is it glued down onto a board? or stapled to the under side or something like that?

It's an 8x4 board. The flocked paper is stapled underneath. It sits on two sawhorses.

It really doesn't get any easier than that

I hate to tell you this but... Lionel is now the bottom end of the quality scale for that scale train set. They rely on their name and charge accordingly. Over the years their quality slowly got to be more and more like cheap toys (ie: junk expected to break) whereas their competitors just got slowly better until they eclipsed them. If you insist on buying Lionel see if your local train stores deal in used stuff.

A 4'x8' layout is not transportable. I'd recommend a 4'x6' board that is actually in two sections (4'x3'). If your original plan was to nail the track down, take the time to find some screws that will work instead. It'll be much easier to deal with in the future, especially considering the purposes of this layout.

My grandfather used to build and paint miniature railroad sets (I guess this whole miniature thing runs in the family).

Anyway, I have some of his old sets sitting in storage. He tended to use flock paper glued to plywood, and even after 50+ years of use and storage, it's still in good condition (No tears in the paper, no missing flock). The glued-down flock sets have deteriorated quite a bit, though. You can sand down the edges of plywood and fill it with wood filler, and not only will it look better, it'll probably be a bit safer for kids. I'd recommend plastic cement to glue down the flock paper. Since you're lucky enough to live next to a store that specializes in miniature trains, you'll probably have a ton of available options for miniatures and shrubs and things like that.

I wouldn't screw the track itself down, unless you're looking to make it very portable. I'd recommend supergluing it on top of the flock paper (carefully).

EDIT: Since you're looking for them to be able to add onto it, scratch that last bit. Just know that it's a rare miniature train track that actually stays together well when you simply set it down.

thanks for the info

We went with Lionel really just for tradition, my uncle has some very very old Lionel trains and a set from when he was a kid and even from when his dad was a kid. and I also like the size. It's big but not huge. I used to have a N scale train about 15-20 years ago but I couldn't see that surviving with my nephew's little hands very long. The scale also seemed a little close to 40k so if I ever wanted to build them some scenery using some of the bitz I have it would fit in good.

The flocked paper sounds good then. I will probably do a 4x6 board cut in half so there's 2 4x3 sections.

Are there other companies that make stuff the same scale that will be compatible with lionel that are maybe a better quality?

I'm pretty big into model trains, having had layouts in N, HO and O scales, and an outdoor railroad in G scale.

Lionel is "O' Scale, Atlas and MtH are two manufactures that come to mind. Do a quick search on Google and you'll find more, as well as look for some local Model Railroad hobby shops. Just check to make sure if it is meant for 2 or 3 rail track.

The older Lionel stuff is much better quality, but it's also got "collector" value which tends to drive the prices up. O scale is great for younger children as it's much more robust. Keep that in mind though, as the quality in O scale tends to go in two directions. You have the extremely expensive, ridiculously highly detailed, and fragile stuff for the serious and meticulous model railroader and you have the more chunky and solid plastic "toys" that can survive young nephews smashing the cars into each other. So if you're paying say $20-$30 for a single "toy" train car, you need to search harder. Avoid the highly detailed (and expensive) models for now.

I am going to reiterate on my comment to screw the track down. Find some screws small enough to fit through the holes in the track where you'd normal nail the track down. Why use screws? Because as this is a small little starter train set someday someone (if not you) will have to take it apart and that'll make it much easier. We are not talking a super detailed model railroad here, just a toy train set.

If you make the layout/ train board out of two 4'x3' pieces that join together you have a couple options. I like the idea about using hinges however there's a chance of damaging the track while moving it in and out of storage. You screw the track down how you want it but leave the pieces of track that bridge the boards loose. You can then remove them easily and you'll have less trouble putting the board together or taking them apart. Check out the local hardware store from some sliding door locks (like exterior deadbolts). You can screw these to the boards in such a fashion that when you place them together you can lock the boards together so they don't slide apart and cause the track to split and derail the trains.

Cool thanks for the info.

I think this project has now spiraled way out of proportion We're all spending xmas at my aunt's place this year and she got wind of the train thing and decided it would be a better idea if she had her own already set up for the kids and we just give them the set all wrapped up to set up at home... so she ran out to the train store and got a big $350 set and a 4x8 piece of plywood that I've been tasked with turning into a christmas village.

So I think now what I'm gonna do is just get a roll of the paper stuff for them and tell my bro in law to get a hunk of plywood and staple it down to the underside. The screws sounds like a good idea since they will be adding to it. My hope is that it will start as a toy train and eventually they will pick up the hobby and build their set into a cool collection that they love forever. But... baby steps..

another question... does anyone ever paint these trains? they look like they have a fair amt of detail and would look great if you weathered em and make them look used. Or would something like that totally ruin the value? Or would these generic starter sets never really be worth much to a collector 30 years from now anyway?

I wouldn't recommend painting them as I think it would ruin the look and the value of the model.

Yes people paint and weather the trains, some people use the carriage bases and motors and build their own trains on top. At the end of the day you're giving them to an 8 year old, who I'm sure will appreciate the train itself, and a lovely board but probably aren't going to notice that you've spent 7 hours painting rust on with a make-up brush (tamiya weathering kits are great by the way if you decide to go ahead). If you're building one seperate as a display then go for it.
edit>
Sod that if its o guage, gravel for ballast is fine.
</edit

We also just painted green to start, then built up and flocked when we decided what were having round the track etc.>

Here's the train I helped my aunt & uncle & cousins put together. We have some of my uncles old cars mixed in and resting off to the side and we got a few extra track pieces and some of those little plastic houses that fall apart if you breathe on them. They wouldn't allow me to glue them together because they wanted to be able to pack them back up easy. I was hoping to build some elaborate flocked board but they wanted the simple approach so my cousin did the board with white celling paint and some green blotches with a sponge. was still a fun project, helped take my mind off my skinks for a while

thats a good board necro. that tracj is what i was talking about with the grey roadbed.
the white table is cool.
what you should do is get some of that fake snow and make it a winter scape. i got it from walmart, it looks like giant cotton or pillow stuffing.

oh... im not sure if you want to get into this but after christmas you can get those christmas village ceramic house sets dirt cheap. they look nice setup on a layout.

Yeah my aunt has all kinds of those ceramic houses. THey have holes in the bottom perfect for medium sized xmas light bulbs so we got a 1" drill bit and drilled a bunch of holes in the board, then strung the lights on the under side and stuck the bulbs through. Worked real good

I kept telling them I wanted to paint up the plastic house kits they got but they wouldn't let me. Maybe I can get one and paint it up nice for a gift some time. They also have an old plastic lake piece with a bridge over it, but the lake part was a blue piece of plastic that's missing so I might repaint that and get some clear resin and make it look like water.

Are there any good dakka-dakka-like message boards out there for trains, preferably lionel? I did some googling but I didn't find anything too good...

I am sure there are boards out there. There are entire magazines devoted to that scale of train, so I am sure you can find sites.

As for painting... OMG yes people paint their trains! People don't usually paint Lionel style trains because they are considered to be more like "toys" and less like scale replicas.

Look man, seriously just go here and begin your journey:

Model Railroader Magazine Homepage

looks nice

Cool thanks for the link. So, are all O scale trains considered toys, or just lionel? I kinda like the size but I think if I ever had a set of my own I would probably go with HO. I had a starter N scale set a long time ago but there isn't much left of it these days...

Trains of any scale can be considered "toys", mostly depending on the quality you buy, much the same way as with the models we build and play with for gaming. O scale is probably the one considered most toy like for several reasons. It commonly has 3 rail tracks (which makes it "unrealistic"). Small details like the steam pipes and things tend to be molded into the plastic, which on the small scales looks fine but as you get larger this molded on detail tends to simply look cheap.

Train sets really exploded into popularity post WWII, and then the common scale of train was O scale, so that's what you found in toy stores (at the time production technology had not developed to where smaller trains could be made easily or en-mass). The scale is large enough to be easily handled by the small hands of children and robust enough to where it can be banged around or the track stepped on and not destroyed, yet not nearly as expensive as the larger scale trains.

The major suppliers at that time (late 1940s thru the early 1960s) were Lionel and American Flyer and the popular scales were O and S (which are rather close to one another). The American Flyer company fell by the wayside, while Lionel struggled on against the economy and still survives today. Lionel made it's profits selling toy train sets and accessories. They never really got beyond the "toy train set" market though, and as the boys who played with trains grew up and wanted better more realistic models other companies filled the void. So for that reason Lionel are considered to be "toys", admittedly perhaps not in all fairness but it's a stigma the company is now stuck with and their current low production standards vs other companies has not really done anything to improve this image.

HO is THE most popular scale and has hands down the largest selection and easiest availability of any model you'd want. N scale is right behind it and is great if you are cramped for space, but its tiny size can be a problem for aging eyes and hands...

Cool thanks for the info. I do like the O scale size for my nephews and it does seem like it will stand up to a good bit of wear and tear, they're 8 and 3. And I know they'll love it when they hit the whistle button and it starts talking and I think they'll have a lot of fun building the tracks and setting up their own little town around it over time.

When I look around the train store though I find myself looking at the HO stuff more. I think that's more my size Though I do like N also. I keep thinking it might be a fun project to build a warzone train set with flames of war minis duking it out and blown up little buildings. Instead of the usual happy 50's towns I see in all the O scale stuff, I'd go for more of a WWII look with an army supply train But I don't know if the size of FOW's stuff would really match up with HO or N. I also thought a 40K train might be cool, using Epic minis.. But then O seems like it might fit the normal models pretty good... maybe...

Flames of War is 15mm, which is TT scale, a rare scale that was briefly popular in Europe and is almost completely extinct in the US except for some diehard fanboys.

O scale is the best scale to use if you are going to be converting model trains for use with 25mm wargaming minis. I actual have a train set put aside right now for a big project after the holidays. I was contemplating doing an article on the project.

A lot of gamers transitioning to model trains try the "war train" idea but frankly it just doesn't make an sense and in the long ru is not that much fun. While train yards, bridges, stations, etc, can be strategic points in a battle, you don't actively have trains running through the middle of the battle. If you really want to mix model trains and military models I'd suggest modeling trains during the WWII period and then you can run long supply trains loaded with all sorts of military goodies, but not trains on the front lines.

Yeah that's what I was thinking.. more like a military supply train, maybe with a couple of those cars with the big cannons on them. Not riding through the middle of a battle but after one, with ruined buildings and that sort of thing. Then I thought giving it a 40k touch I could make the buildings & scenery on their own bases and then use some of them for games if need be.

I'll have to visit the train store again when it's not xmas time. I was there for some supplies for my nephew's set today and it was a mobscene.

Necros wrote:I'll have to visit the train store again when it's not xmas time. I was there for some supplies for my nephew's set today and it was a mobscene.

Glad to hear they were busy! Encouraging given the economy and the relative "smallness" of the hobby.

Yeah.. I can't believe I've never really been in there before this year and they've been around since like 1940. It's a big 2 floor building, the 2nd floor is all trains and downstairs is a huge toy store. And their prices seem to be cheaper too for a lot of stuff, the train set I was originally going to get for my nephews was $170 at AC Moore, and they had it for $125. So we ended up getting them something way bigger and better for a little more than the price we were going to spend, and it was still $50 cheaper than the places I saw online after the fact.

They're apparently one of the biggest model train places in the Philly area... www.nstrains.com

They also have a huge selection of Woodland scenics and other scenery things so I'll be doing all of my shopping for that kind of stuff there from now on.

Necros wrote:They're apparently one of the biggest model train places in the Philly area... www.nstrains.com

In the famous words of Mr. Vader... "Impressive... Most impressive..."