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I am just getting back into 40K. Sniper rifles and rending are now different - but I still have the Eldar codex to take into account. I looked up a thread using the search function - it went off topic second post into demons and the lash (go figure) and never provided an answer to the question -

How do Ranger Long Rifles work now in conjuntion with the new Sniper and Rending rules?

Eldar codex says a Ranger long rifle is a sniper rile, AP1 on a roll of a 6 to hit.......Main rulebook says sniper rifles are rending on rolls of 6 to wound, auto wounding and AP2.

So, if I shoot at a non vehicle, roll a 6 to hit, and then a 6 to wound, do I autowound and is the shot AP1, or AP2?

If I shoot against a vehcile, a roll of 6 to hit, I am AP1 whichconfers an additional modifer on the damage chart, but if it is only S3, I have to roll a 6 to penetrate, so I can roll that extra D3 and hope to actually do some damage.

Like a regular Sniper Rifle except AP1 instead of AP2 on a roll of 6.

Nurglitch, that contradicts the Eldar codex - which gives special rules on rolls to hit. If you are right, no sense taking pathfinders (or rgular rangers for that matter) for the points.

Berothien:

No, that is exactly what Codex: Eldar says: On to hit roll of 6 the weapon is AP1. The Long Rifle is a Sniper weapon so it is AP2 on a to wound roll of 6. So the Long Rifle is like a regular Sniper Rifle except AP1 instead of AP2 on a roll of 6.

Beriothien wrote:Nurglitch, that contradicts the Eldar codex - which gives special rules on rolls to hit. If you are right, no sense taking pathfinders (or rgular rangers for that matter) for the points.

I think Nurglitch means that they would be auto wounding, ap1 instead of ap2. Or thats how I read the question and his response. Against vehicles I cant remember how they work and dont have the rules near me. Even If my interpretation is wrong Pathfinders are still worth it to the increase in there cover save - 90% of the time they should have a 2+ save against most shots.

Edit: he answered while i was typing.

Casper:

You are correct. Indeed, taking Rangers and Pathfinders is definitely worth it with the current rules for Sniper weapons: they get a chance to be either AP1 or AP2.

If you roll to hit with a 6 against a vehicle, and roll 6 for Armour Penetration, then you roll 3+D6+D3 for penetration and get +1 on the damage roll. Sounds handy to me.

Rending weapon against vehicles get a extra D3 on a Armour Penetration . their AP does not change. You get the AP2 and auto wound, when you roll to wound.

Seattle:

We're talking about Ranger Long Rifles. They get AP1 on a to hit roll of 6 in addition to all the usual rules for Sniper.

Yes and their AP does not change because of Rending but the codex rule does change it.

Pathfinders, or not at all. Small squad. 2-3 at most. Dedicated anti-cover save stuff needs to be focoused on (id say) over normal tanks. As a whirl wind shooting pathfinders in area terrain (with no upper floors - which they can hide under wooo ) will wound on 2+, no sv.

Also, ignore terrains + scouts rule means that 6' move can be through cover to an amazing sniper postion after youve infiltrated.

AP1 on a roll to hit of 5-6 (pathfinder rules) and rending (auto-wound, ap2) on a roll of a 6. Pretty effective TEQ, MEQ, MC count.

Pathfinder hits against a tank, if its AV 11 (well, 12 at a push) or lower - go for it, if theres jyst nothing else to shoot at.

The rules for thier weapons are X (in description) Plus USR which are explained in the BGB. You get both. Infact you get pinning twice. Woo

AP1 and AP2 don't matter when shooting non vehicles, they are the same thing because there is no 1+ armour save, so just ignore that, if you roll a 6 on either to hit or wound it's ap1/2.

Everything else is straightforward, you apply the eldar rules over the top of the sniper rifle ones, there's no contradictions, no problems, they work together fine.

It's actually two seperate clauses in the rule book under Rending

Normal rending shots are AP2
vehicle rending shots are Strength of weapon(3 in case of sniper weapons) + 6(rending roll) + D3, it doesn't change the AP.

The AP from a sniper weapon doesn't matter vs vehicles, and it's not stated, it's simply s3+2d6. The Ranger/Pathfinder AP1 overrides the standard AP of the weapon.

That being said, the odds of destroying a vehicle even as lightly armored as a Rhino with a 5 man squad are somewhere around 1%.

Kyvik wrote:That being said, the odds of destroying a vehicle even as lightly armored as a Rhino with a 5 man squad are somewhere around 1%.

Actually, that's around 9% with pathfinders. Around 25% to get a stun or better.
Still not worth it in many scenarios though.

25% chance to stun a tank if theres no troops to shoot at. Better than not being able to do squat. (Unless they bring back squats....)