Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Last game that I played my Tyranid teammate gave the genestealers of his Broodlord retinue scuttlers to give scout to the squad. It was sick, because he could infiltrate 18", scout, move assault, and bam, 1st turn Broodlord assault when over open ground. I know Scout is normally lost if an Independent Character w/o Scout joins the squad, but in Broodlord's case he is defined as an Upgrade Character and not an Independent Character because he arrives with a retinue, and has the Independent Character special rule. We had a big discussion about it and just decided it w/ a die roll because we were short on time. It evened out in the game because my shokk attack gun took out himself, a squad of lootaz, and a carnifex right at the start and we lost 3 KPs, so it was still a good game. (Note: Broodlord does not have a scuttler option)

I realize this is the almost the same as the 'Can Broodlord fleet?' argument that has come up before, and the tyranid player has generally found that people believe Broodlord can't fleet. RAW, it seems like Broodlord can fleet and scout if scuttlers are taken on the genestealers. I would prefer if he didn't, because he already destroys anything even close to table edges, but here's why I think he can:

-The wording for losing a special ability describes a unit being joined by an Independent Character. Broodlord is not an Independent Character when with his retinue, he is an Upgrade Character with the Independent Character special rule, which causes him to become the IC when his genestealers are wiped out.

So does having the Independent Character rule even when the model is defined in the game as an Upgrade Character still make the Broodlord an Independent Character for purposes of losing special abilities (getting confused typing this)?

My answer would be 'no he cannot'. My reasoning is as follows...

Forget for a moment about the BL being an IC, that has no relevence. The 'Stealers have had an upgrade, that each pays for independently. This is not, therefore, a 'unit' ability. The BL has not been upgraded in this way. The rules state that a unit will move at the speed of the slowest member, so I think that is all that needs to be said.

Yeah, because the upgrade is bought per model, not as a whole unit, you cannot claim the broodlord has it even if he is technically an upgrade character for that unit.

-The wording for losing a special ability describes a unit being joined by an Independent Character....

This rule has been around since 4th edition, exact wording too. So, 5th is no different.

Also, the genestealers do pay for their 'upgrade' on a per model basis, and the Broodlord does not have that option from what I understand.