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I haven't tried this yet, but I wonder how effective this list would be

2 flying lash sorcerers
6 squads of 10 csm with 2 meltaguns (no aspiring champion)
1 squad of 10 havocs with 4 meltaguns (no aspiring champion)


Plenty of troops for objective missions, lots of bodies to weather shooting, mobility isn't an issue with so many models and the running rules. And its not too worried about hordes as its a horde army with 72 models at just 1500pts. Landraider crusaders and to a lesser extent regular landraiders can play the range game, but eventually 16 meltaguns will get into range.

Downsides I see are leadership 9 and a sorcerer getting caught in a squad that breaks. And possibly facing a gun line of IG, as it'll take a few turns to get into their lines. Thoughts?

I've been wondering myself.

On paper it looks effective. Playing testing will tell though, keep us posted.

The lack of mobility and survivability in this list is what will kill it. First turn, move up, run. Second turn, move up, run. Third turn, shoot stuff, assault stuff. Anyone in their right mind will simply walk back and shoot you to death and when you get close enough will charge you to take away that advantage form you.

It does look good on paper but you have to think about a few things. Will these 16 meltas make it to the enemy or will half of them be shot off the table and the other half be routed by nasty assaults. I know you have sorcerers but if you don't play them right and they land outside of a squad they will quickly be shot to death by everything the enemy has.

I like the list but I can already seem some pretty fatal flaws for it on the table. I think how you could fix it would be with DPs rather than sorcerers (only 10 points more than your current sorcs) and transports. All you have to drop is one squad of CSMs, and a few men in another. Something like

DP, MoS, LoS, Wings 155
DP, MoS, LoS, Wings 155
4x) 10x CSMs, 2x Melta, Rhino 205
1x) 9x CSMs, 1x HB 145
1x) 10x Havocs, 4x Melta, Rhino 225

HB squad could hold the back objective and still contribute to some parts of the board with the HB or shoot guys coming at them from table edges.

2 flying lash sorcerers
6 squads of 10 csm with 2 meltaguns (no aspiring champion)
1 squad of 10 havocs with 4 meltaguns (no aspiring champion)

Never faced such an army.
Cult armies are usually better.
All squads should have the IoGC.

Generally, there is no need for more than 3 scoring units at the 1500 pts level.

well its not a bad list but i dont think you will be able to win alot of games unless you hide in cover and have them come to you wich will be hard if your up against a shooty list.

Close your eyes and imagine a tau gun line, now imagine this army facing it.

I thought of the problems this list faces, mobility isn't an issue, but having no firepower while running is. The problem I run into is... if I use demon princes they can be picked out, and someone smart will absolutely take them out first (I would!). This means I want sorcerers. The problem with sorcerers when you lash, you will probably lose the fire power of the squad they are in. (Which of course means you want demon princes... so annoying to have that conundrum, but anyways) Having the jump pack isn't a problem, after you play the game for a while you have an idea of what 8 inches in front of your infantry squad will look like and you won't jump your sorcerer too far in front of your infantry squad. As far as using rhino's another problem exists, if you have 10 squad members you have no room for IC's, but if you have 9 or less squad members then you don't get 2 special weapons. (plus I don't have 6 rhino's!!! but I will) And of course if you use legion troops you lose sheer numbers due to added points costs.


If I add in IoCG, for all squads? Is it worth 5 CSM? 70pts. What else would you replace if not that?

For the Tau gun line, yeah its scary, however, unless he fields on the last 2.5" of his deployment zone I'll still be able to lash a squad or perhaps 2 squads per turn. I'm still looking at combat (theoritcally on turn 2) In reality it'll be turn 3, however if I run on turn 1, i weather a single turn of fire, and then... I can have my chaos gun line, which is much more effective and higher leadership, problaby an interesting thing to watch, granted I lose a squad per turn.

So what if I did this
2 flying lash sorcerers
6 x 10 csm with IoCG
1 x 10 lesser demons (either summon off the unit inthe back, and holds home objective, or off the unit in the front and provides a speed bump or forward tie up unit until everyone else is in place.

or
2 x flying lash sorcerers
6 x 10 csm with IoCG
3 Chaos Rhinos, used as transports, but mostly for blocking LOS, move 2 rhino squads up 12", 1 moves up 6" (2 of 3 rhino's have havoc launchers) first 2 block los to the 3 units that have to hoof it, sorcerers jump around pullin n pushin key enemy units.

or

I'm running 6 troop choices not so much that I'm worried about capturing objectives, but they are the most cost effective unit to build a horde with.

Typeline wrote:The lack of mobility and survivability in this list is what will kill it. First turn, move up, run. Second turn, move up, run. Third turn, shoot stuff, assault stuff. Anyone in their right mind will simply walk back and shoot you to death and when you get close enough will charge you to take away that advantage form you.

Sazzlefrats wrote:I thought of the problems this list faces, mobility isn't an issue, but having no firepower while running is. The problem I run into is... if I use demon princes they can be picked out, and someone smart will absolutely take them out first (I would!). This means I want sorcerers. The problem with sorcerers when you lash, you will probably lose the fire power of the squad they are in. (Which of course means you want demon princes... so annoying to have that conundrum, but anyways) Having the jump pack isn't a problem, after you play the game for a while you have an idea of what 8 inches in front of your infantry squad will look like and you won't jump your sorcerer too far in front of your infantry squad. As far as using rhino's another problem exists, if you have 10 squad members you have no room for IC's, but if you have 9 or less squad members then you don't get 2 special weapons. (plus I don't have 6 rhino's!!! but I will) And of course if you use legion troops you lose sheer numbers due to added points costs.


If I add in IoCG, for all squads? Is it worth 5 CSM? 70pts. What else would you replace if not that?

For the Tau gun line, yeah its scary, however, unless he fields on the last 2.5" of his deployment zone I'll still be able to lash a squad or perhaps 2 squads per turn. I'm still looking at combat (theoritcally on turn 2) In reality it'll be turn 3, however if I run on turn 1, i weather a single turn of fire, and then... I can have my chaos gun line, which is much more effective and higher leadership, problaby an interesting thing to watch, granted I lose a squad per turn.

So what if I did this
2 flying lash sorcerers
6 x 10 csm with IoCG
1 x 10 lesser demons (either summon off the unit inthe back, and holds home objective, or off the unit in the front and provides a speed bump or forward tie up unit until everyone else is in place.

or
2 x flying lash sorcerers
6 x 10 csm with IoCG
3 Chaos Rhinos, used as transports, but mostly for blocking LOS, move 2 rhino squads up 12", 1 moves up 6" (2 of 3 rhino's have havoc launchers) first 2 block los to the 3 units that have to hoof it, sorcerers jump around pullin n pushin key enemy units.

or

I'm running 6 troop choices not so much that I'm worried about capturing objectives, but they are the most cost effective unit to build a horde with.

Typeline wrote:The lack of mobility and survivability in this list is what will kill it. First turn, move up, run. Second turn, move up, run. Third turn, shoot stuff, assault stuff. Anyone in their right mind will simply walk back and shoot you to death and when you get close enough will charge you to take away that advantage form you.

Daemons Princes are better than Sorcerors in every way.

You can either have 1 Daemon Prince who sneak around and be agile + a 2nd unattached squad that can go hunt down threats.
Or have 1 wimpy Sorceror who has to drag around that squad instead of it being free to go off and attack stuff.

A smart opponent will blast away a squad of space marines with a sorceror hiding in it. When the regular weak troops are gone from around him, all you have is a S4 T4 weakling sorceror who can be instakilled by a single lascannon shot.

A Daemon Prince is like a Carnifex. Your opponent might shoot it dead if it's in the open. But that turn he will not be shooting lascannons at anything else.

If a list has 2 Daemon Princes + 9 Obliterators + Plague Marines. There are lots of things that high strength weapons could kill, but an enemy probably won't have enough weapons to instakill all the threats facing him.

A single battlecannon shot can kill both a lash sorceror (who costs as much as a DP) and half or more of the unit that he is with.

If you had that same daemon prince outside the unit and away from them. The opponent would take at least 5 battlecannon shots to do the same amount of destruction. 4 on the daemon prince and 1 on the marine squad.

I would Clearly take the 2nd option.