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Terminators have to decide if they're going to divide into combat squads at the beginning of the game, during deployment, even if they're deepstriking.

In doing so, do I roll reserves for each 5 man squad separately, or do I just make one reserves roll, but separate scatter rolls for the two units when they come in?

If they've been split into two squads when placed in reserves, then they're seperate squads in all respects.

So, yes, that means that you do the reserve rolls for their arrival seperately.

Spellbound wrote:In doing so, do I roll reserves for each 5 man squad separately, or do I just make one reserves roll, but separate scatter rolls for the two units when they come in?

It would be one roll. They're split when they're deployed, not during the deployment phase specifically.

Yes, what insaniak said. This one btw is still under review, because the codex only gives the exception to a drop pod, but only lists 'deployment' as when you can combat squad. It has been pointed out that deployment does take place 'when' the models are placed on the table though. But others will surely disagree.

Padixon, with this interpretation, that models are deployed when put onto a table, an auspex can be used to shoot at units that outflank... It also means when an unit that has the infltrate rule gets out of a transport or deep strikes can be shot in the same regard lol... silly... but RAW if thats the case. Can you quote a rules page?

I suppose that makes the wargear a little more useful?

frgsinwntr wrote:Padixon, with this interpretation, that models are deployed when put onto a table, an auspex can be used to shoot at units that outflank...

Or, by that definition, even units that exit a transport!

lol democratus you posted before I was able to finish my edit... but the unit in the transport would need to have the infiltrators rule.

frgsinwntr wrote:lol democratus you posted before I was able to finish my edit... but the unit in the transport would need to have the infiltrators rule.

Yes. But as soon as you hit "Submit" and came out of your post I shot you because I have an Auspex!

frgsinwntr wrote:Padixon, with this interpretation, that models are deployed when put onto a table, an auspex can be used to shoot at units that outflank... It also means when an unit that has the infltrate rule gets out of a transport or deep strikes can be shot in the same regard lol... silly... but RAW if thats the case. Can you quote a rules page?

Being placed on the table isn't always deployment.

Check the wording of the Deep Strike rules entry compared to the Reserves and Outflank entries.

Models arriving by Deep Strike are deployed. Models moving onto a table edge from Reserves or Outflanking are not... they simply move onto the table.

Likewise, models disembarking from a transport are not being deployed. They're just disembarking.

Of course, that still leaves us with a problem, in that units arriving by walking on from Reserves would not be able to Combat Squad, as they are never actually deployed.

insaniak wrote:

frgsinwntr wrote:Padixon, with this interpretation, that models are deployed when put onto a table, an auspex can be used to shoot at units that outflank... It also means when an unit that has the infltrate rule gets out of a transport or deep strikes can be shot in the same regard lol... silly... but RAW if thats the case. Can you quote a rules page?

Being placed on the table isn't always deployment.

Check the wording of the Deep Strike rules entry compared to the Reserves and Outflank entries.

Models arriving by Deep Strike are deployed. Models moving onto a table edge from Reserves or Outflanking are not... they simply move onto the table.

Likewise, models disembarking from a transport are not being deployed. They're just disembarking.

Of course, that still leaves us with a problem, in that units arriving by walking on from Reserves would not be able to Combat Squad, as they are never actually deployed.

Sooo... yea I'm at work. can you quote where you are getting this from for me? :(

But others will surely disagree.

Told ya!

The word deployment is thrown around so much, I am positive that not everyone knows what it means in game terms.

1) No one has issued any explanation so far, yet are sure they are right. Remember I am not entirely sure either as I posted :

It has been pointed out that deployment does take place 'when' the models are placed on the table though

Note: I said it has been pointed out, I am not sure about it either folks, so back up the blame train here.

2) Deployment in game terms is literally the deployment mission type (Pitched battle, spearhead, dawn of war). Showing 'how' units are to be 'deployed' as per the game being played. Please list any other definitions of the word 'deployment' from the BGB please (seriously, I am trying to find some myself).

3) Deploying your units is the gray area for example: here is a quote from the BGB pg 94 "When deploying their army, players may choose *not to deploy* one or more of the units in their army and instead leave them in reserve." (emphasis mine)
Note: you do not 'deploy' said squad when you put them in reserve.

4) same page "Once all the units have been rolled for, the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it...." This is in reference to reserves.

This is why it is a gray area.

5) Please list the rule for the auspex, because if I remember correctly it can 'only' be applied against infiltrators after the 'infiltration' phase. *which no longer exists* so not a good example fellas.

6) as far as the other side, under 'out flank' it specifies that "during deployment, players may declare that units with the 'scout' and 'infiltrate' special rules are attempting to outflank..." This suggests that this 'determination' is made at deployment time, and as such so is combat squading.

Edit again: I am not for any thing, just showing some sides to this, that's all.

Another darn Edit: @ insaniak, I did read the DS rules, and the last sentence of the first paragraph uses the 'same' words as they do with units arriving from reserves as I used just a few sentences above.

insaniak wrote:

Being placed on the table isn't always deployment.

Check the wording of the Deep Strike rules entry compared to the Reserves and Outflank entries.

Models arriving by Deep Strike are deployed. Models moving onto a table edge from Reserves or Outflanking are not... they simply move onto the table.

Actually, models arriving from reserves are deploying. They changed the wording in 5th edition. Page 94 'rolling for reserves' 2nd paragraph.



So as a marine player you combat squad:

1) When deploying the unit before the game.
2) When deploying from reserves (including Deep striking).


Note that if you put a unit in reserve and you want to combat squad it, besides a drop pod (which has a specific exemption) you cannot have them arrive in a vehicle because in order to have a unit arrive via a vehicle you have to declare they are doing so when putting them in reserve and you aren't allowed to combat squad them until they actually arrive on the table (deploy).

padixon wrote:
5) Please list the rule for the auspex, because if I remember correctly it can 'only' be applied against infiltrators after the 'infiltration' phase. *which no longer exists* so not a good example fellas.

6) as far as the other side, under 'out flank' it specifies that "during deployment, players may declare that units with the 'scout' and 'infiltrate' special rules are attempting to outflank..." This suggests that this 'determination' is made at deployment time, and as such so is combat squading.

I will post later since I am at work... if no one else does by then. You could be right but I think the witch hunters codex lists it infiltrators that are "deployed".

and no i actually don't think you should be able to shoot, just curious about the wording if you can lol

yakface wrote:Actually, models arriving from reserves are deploying. They changed the wording in 5th edition. Page 94 'rolling for reserves' 2nd paragraph.

That's what I get for posting when I should be in bed...


So...

So as a marine player you combat squad:

1) When deploying the unit before the game.
2) When deploying from reserves (including Deep striking).

Yeah, that.

ok, can't use the auspex. Says the shots are taken before the battle begins and it references "set up" not deploy

From the rules for Disembarking in the BRB:
"When the unit disembarks, each model is deployed within 2" of one of the vehicle's access points, and within unit coherency."

I would also like to point out that the SM codex states that the one instance you don't choose to split at Deployment was when a unit arrives via a Drop Pod, but this is described in the DS rules as Deployment as well.

So I think the RAI for this is that the squad must be declared as split in the Deployment phase, unless it is in a Drop Pod. This gets around msot of the issues with the order of declaring/deploying/arriving.

Just my opinion from what Ihave read, I'm hoping for a FAQ soon (looks at Yak).

Yackface hit the nail on the head.