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Hey all......I am considering an all Khorne Daemon army and would like to know if it's a viable option?
Can I win?
Would it be fun?

Has anybody tried this or played against it?

I understand bloodcrushers are dead hard and would make up the core of the army, but what then?
I've heard that flesh hounds aren't very good (but I have 10 already)
Use 2 bloodthirsters, 1 bloodthirster & the big ass bloodthirster, 1 bloodthirster & 2 heralds?

There is virtually no shooting in the army and probably no real anti-tank (except big things and soul grinders), but is very good in hth.

But, for me, it is easy to paint, looks good on the table and straight forward.

Thanks,
Rick

Khorne works fairly well.

Start with 2 units of 5-8 Bloodcrushers (full command, for maximum "different" models to spread wounds around).

Add 2 Bloodthirsters.

Add 3 Soul Grinders.

Fill remaining points with Bloodletters.

Drop in an encirclement pattern, to deny your opponent an easy way to disengage most of your army.

Some issues with grav tank spam, but the 'thirsters are fast enough and have enough attacks at a high enough strength to give you a sporting chance at all-mech lists.

Thanks for that........I will need some more models

Don't we all?

If you're not absolutely fixed on all-Khorne, Bloodcrushers + Fateweaver are a truly sick combo. Actually, Tzeentch compliments most of the other gods very well, adding some lovely shooting, some serious utility through Heralds in chariots, and Fateweaver is a major force multiplier.

Here are your 2 options at a mono god khorne list.

Janthkin wrote:Khorne works fairly well.

Start with 2 units of 5-8 Bloodcrushers (full command, for maximum "different" models to spread wounds around).

Add 2 Bloodthirsters.

Add 3 Soul Grinders.

Fill remaining points with Bloodletters.

Drop in an encirclement pattern, to deny your opponent an easy way to disengage most of your army.

Some issues with grav tank spam, but the 'thirsters are fast enough and have enough attacks at a high enough strength to give you a sporting chance at all-mech lists.

Or

4 heralds on charriots instead of the 2 thirsters and the rest.

For all-khorne, the speed of the Bloodthirster is crucial for catching things that are inclined to run away from you. Khornate heralds are *slow*.

I think it is viable but I would rather use Nurgle and Khorne together.

G

I have some Tzeench stuff too (15 horrors, 3 flamers, greater daemon), but I want to try out a pure khorne list too.

Khorne OWNS. Heralds on chariots and bloodcrusher spam beats most everything.

extrenm(54) wrote:Khorne OWNS. Heralds on chariots and bloodcrusher spam beats most everything.

Until you run into the Dreadnought mob (particular Ironclad mob). Then you're screwed.

[Edit, obviously a thirster would slap dreads around, but it costs too much to be viable in the wider metagame.]

Is that entirely true? What's the Mathhammer on a Herald w/Unholy Strength, Chariot of Khorne, Fury of Khorne vs. an Ironclad...

I'm not entirely sure of the Ironclad's statline, but I seem to recall it's got ws 4, i 4, AV 13, 2 attacks on the statline and an extra for a second Dreadnaught CCW.

Herald has 4 wounds, 3+ save/5+ invul, i5, ws 6, 4 attacks, s6, rending.

So, each attack from the Dread has 1/2 chance to hit, 5/6 chance to wound, 2/3 chance to bypass invul save. total of 10/36, or 5/18, little less than one in 3. Thus, each round it ought to inflict one wound. With No Retreat Saves thrown in establishing 3 rounds as a baseline for how long it takes a dread to kill a Herald seems fair.

Each attack from the Herald has 2/3 to hit, 1/6 chance to rend, so 1/9 to rend. Examining the rend, 1/3 are glances, 2/3 are pens. 1/3 of pens kill, 1/6 wd, 1/6 immobilize and 1/3 are ignored. 2/3 of glances are ignored, 1/6 immobilize, 1/6 WD. So, overall, 8/18 of rends are ignored, 3/18 immobilize, 3/18 wd, 4/18 destroy.

Let's say, arbitrarily, that immobilizing a dread is good enough for a chariot, and destroying a weapon is not. So, on any given rend, you've got 7/18 acceptable results, 11/18 unacceptable. You need to rend twice to be confident that you've got the odds on your side.

Recalling that the Dread will finish the job on round 3 the Herald has 12 attacks to rend twice, with a 1/9 chance of rending on each shot. It doesn't look good for the Herald, though the 3 round deadline didn't take into account the possibility of the rend offsetting one of his no retreat saves.

Looking at these #'s I'd say that the Dread should win 11/18 of the time (since Herald doesn't, on average, get a second glance), and even when he "loses", he might just be immobilized, and not killed. This is appropriate, since the Dread costs a bit more.

Briefly taking the charge into account, I'd say it swings the odds in favor of whoever gets it, obviously. The Dread might put a wound on the Herald with shooting, while the Herald's furious charge gives him better odds on his opening round's rends. There's no reason to suppose either will get the charge vs. the other.

Taking a step back to return to the original theory, I'd say that you aren't "screwed" if you play Khorne vs. a Dread mob. Your Heralds can get a few and hold the rest up, and Crushers w/a rending leader will have much the same fate (more wounds to take hits from the dread, but 1 less str means that they take nearly twice as long to get anything done), and Grinders w/Tongue can assist. It's certainly a hard game, but the Marine player has to protect his troops from pretty much everything in your army, my experience suggests that Khorne Daemons can do alright.

Throw four to six ironclads at him simultaneously, and it becomes a much different game. The ironclad player is going to gang up dreads on single units.

By the way, Ironclads have 3 attacks, due to 2 CCWs.

I've played a couple games against multiple-dread forces, and essentially the khornate stuff (except thirster) were useless.

"Throw four to six ironclads at him simultaneously, and it becomes a much different game. The ironclad player is going to gang up dreads on single units. "

Wait, the Ironclad player is going to be doing the ganging up? That seems unlikely.

The Khorne Daemon player has 3 Elite slots and 3 Heavy Support slots, then 4 chariots. He's basically got 10 players. The Ironclad guy has 6. If there's any ganging up to be done, it'll be by the Khornate player, particularly as the SM player is basically playing defense, trying to keep Grinders, Daemon Princes, Crushers and Heralds away from his troop choices.

"By the way, Ironclads have 3 attacks, due to 2 CCWs."

That's what I thought (and used in my calculations). Thanks for confirming, I wasn't 100% certain.

"I've played a couple games against multiple-dread forces, and essentially the khornate stuff (except thirster) were useless.
"

In allegoryhammer, I'm not sure how your couple of games went, but presumably I've got equal cred? I mean, I play Daemons a lot (Batreps section), and I've basically pioneered the 4 Khornate chariot approach. Obviously we can't verify in any objective sense, but I'm confident that I've got enough Daemon experience to know what I'm talking about.

Surprisingly, Daemonettes are decent vs the Ironclads if you can run a unit of 20 at one...

I personally prefer using Keepers of secrets tho

frgsinwntr wrote:Surprisingly, Daemonettes are decent vs the Ironclads if you can run a unit of 20 at one...

I personally prefer using Keepers of secrets tho

Daemonettes can't hurt an Ironclad: S3 + 6 + d3 maxes out at AV 12.

Centurian99 wrote:Throw four to six ironclads at him simultaneously, and it becomes a much different game.

Oh yea throw four to six Ironclads out there to kill ONE herald or greater daemon. Totally within the realm of viability.

40kenthusiast wrote:"Throw four to six ironclads at him simultaneously, and it becomes a much different game. The ironclad player is going to gang up dreads on single units. "

Wait, the Ironclad player is going to be doing the ganging up? That seems unlikely.

Might be tougher with your basic build (MSU) but it could certainly be done, and would be the smart thing to do. At least its what I'd do if I was running Ironclad spam - send them in against your bloodcrushers/heralds, and shoot the crap out of the letters/horrors.

40kenthusiast wrote:
The Khorne Daemon player has 3 Elite slots and 3 Heavy Support slots, then 4 chariots. He's basically got 10 players. The Ironclad guy has 6. If there's any ganging up to be done, it'll be by the Khornate player, particularly as the SM player is basically playing defense, trying to keep Grinders, Daemon Princes, Crushers and Heralds away from his troop choices.

Possibly yes, although it largely depends on a lot of factors. I'm not sure what the numbers are in an ironclad/soul grinder battle, but I'd guess the edge is probably to the ironclad due to it striking first (although I could be wrong). Assuming that you've got 6 troop units, that's 8 units coming in on turn 1 and 4 on turn 2. Too many factors to consider, but I think it'd be relatively simple to concentrate on one wing of the initial wave, hitting two for one and wiping out 3 units.

"I've played a couple games against multiple-dread forces, and essentially the khornate stuff (except thirster) were useless.
"

In allegoryhammer, I'm not sure how your couple of games went, but presumably I've got equal cred? I mean, I play Daemons a lot (Batreps section), and I've basically pioneered the 4 Khornate chariot approach. Obviously we can't verify in any objective sense, but I'm confident that I've got enough Daemon experience to know what I'm talking about.

I'm not overly worried about running into multiple ironclads around here. There is only 1 gamer that I know that would run that kind of configuration (other than me that is )

I like the idea of 2 bloodthirsters on the table at once, but I will probably end up using a bloodthirster for tank busting and heralds.

How about 1 on a juggernaught attached to a bloodcrusher unit and 1 on a chariot??

On a side note, I'm up to 4 bloodcrushers. Only need 4-8 more

Should I run large units of bloodletter (15) or smaller units??

Thanks,
Rick