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Please answer the poll the way you would play it.

The question refers to this situation:


Note that the top and left edges of the image are the actual Imperial Guard table edge and the short board edge.

The Imperial Guard unit indicated by blue arrows has lost combat against the Meganobz (indicated by green arrows) in the Ork turn, and is retreating. It is now the start of the Imperial Guard turn. The Imperial Guard unit is too close to the Meganobz to regroup, so it must fall back. It rolls a 4" fallback.

There is not enough room for the retreating unit to reach the table edge by moving through the gaps between friendly models, nor is there room to reach the table edge by going to the left around the friendly models. The retreating unit also cannot go to the right around the friendly models without coming within 1" of the Meganobz.

Rulebook p.45 wrote:TRAPPED!
Sometimes a unit will find its fall back move blocked by impassable terrain, friendly models or enemy models (remember they have to stay 1" away from enemy models). The models in the falling back unit may move around these obstructions in such a way as to get back to their table edge by the shortest route, maintaining unit coherency. If the unit cannot perform a full fall back move in any direction without doubling back, it is destroyed (see diagram below).

Is the Imperial Guard unit destroyed?

Per pg. 45, as they cannot Fall Back without doubling-back away from their table edge, they are destroyed.

I have seen some debate over this (I believe there is an actual YMDC poll on it.) I say yes they are destroyed.

I had a search for "trapped" and couldn't find anything relevant, though I do recall some discussion in another thread around this point. My search fu is weak I am afraid.

I remember that poll (or maybe it was only a discussion).
I think the problem is that there is no clear definition or good example of what "doubling back" really is.

So if there is a clear path around the orks and then to the right to the table edge then the IG may retreat in that direction as it will be the shortest possible route.

Doubling back:

back track, turn around, retrace ones course.

If they are supposed to be going South, and they instead go North at all, then they have back-tracked.

Nah.

If they have yet not moved they can neither back track, turn around nor retrace ones course.

You are creating your own definition of doubling back.

If anything it prevents them from moving towards their own board edge as that's where they supposedly came from but that's clearly not what the rules mean.

My interpretation is they may go parallel to their board edge, but if they ever have to go away from it, then they are destroyed.

coredump wrote:My interpretation is they may go parallel to their board edge, but if they ever have to go away from it, then they are destroyed.

That's how I play because it feels like a real rule. But it's not what the rules say.

Agree with Coredump and the others. Take one step away from the table edge you're supposed to be moving towards, and you're destroyed.

Webbe wrote:

coredump wrote:My interpretation is they may go parallel to their board edge, but if they ever have to go away from it, then they are destroyed.

That's how I play because it feels like a real rule. But it's not what the rules say.

From my reading, that *is* what the rules say.

I can understand how others read it differently, but as far as I am concerned, I am playing RAW.

For the folks who voted NO - where do you think the retreating Guard unit should go?

Boss Ardnutz wrote:For the folks who voted NO - where do you think the retreating Guard unit should go?

It's odd, your poll is getting almost exactly the opposite result from the one I ran:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/219001.page


My only theory for this is that your diagram visually limits the possible directions the falling back unit may go. It is not easy to recognize from what you present that there *is* room for the unit to fall back around the 'backside' of the Ork unit that is blocking its path.

By creating a diagram that visually blocks the unit on all sides, it gives the viewer an impression that there is literally nowhere to move, when this is not truly the case.


Either that, or people are just fickle bastards.

don_mondo wrote:Agree with Coredump and the others. Take one step away from the table edge you're supposed to be moving towards, and you're destroyed.

Agreed 100%!

G

I agree 100%... people are fickle bastards.

Boss Ardnutz wrote:For the folks who voted NO - where do you think the retreating Guard unit should go?

The picture doesn't show the whole battlefield. So assuming there are no other units or terrain blocking their path the IG unit would go downwards right around the orks then upwards using the shortest possible route to their board edge according to the rules. This is a route they have not taken previously in any direction so they can't possibly be considered doubling back.

Thanks yakface for the link. That's what I was talking about in my first post in this thread.

A sidenote: As the way I play differs from what the rules actually say I voted No in this poll but option A in yak's YMTC.
And so I see that the minority is correct in both polls.

i stared at that diagram for five minutes straight and couldn't figure out for the life of me what was what... or where any of it was going (or where it started out).

I agree they are dead, they have to maintain movement towards their own table edge otherwise they "scatter and hide"

Kudos on the sprites BTW

They go through the unit behind them, as all IG Heavy Weapons teams are supposed to be played as if they are on individual 25mm bases (the gun gets no base) as per the FAQ.

Very disappointed in the INAT FAQ. If you head away from your own table edge, then you are forced to double-back to start going towards your table edge again.

Thus, they would be destroyed.