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Throughout 4th edition, most groups I played with ignored the 1" rule with regards to vehicles. I think it was because of some silly distinction at the beginning of the book that "model" was infantry and "vehicle" was something else. Whatever.

Anyway, 5th edition seems to really hit home with this 1" thing. So much that even tanks that tank shock first stop 1" away from the enemy before resolving it. There's even strategies to place tanks 2.5" across from each other and shoot between the gap, because enemies can't approach through the space.

ANYWAY, here's the kicker: You can come within 1" of a tank to assault it. You have to. And there's nothing that says you have to get pushed back away from it, either, in fact the opposite is said in that if you're still in btb contact with it during the next assault phase, you get to make your attacks again!

Trouble is, then, what if the vehicle wants to drive away? It happened today that I wanted to drive around my assailants that had just charged me, and get into a good position to fire. According to my opponent, I wouldn't have enough movement to do that, because I had to stay an inch away. What made me think "hmmm" about it was that technically I was already within 1" when I started! Do I have to back up 1" away, and then continue my turn, losing some distance? Is it ignored? How does it work?



Also, tanks tank shocking: Now we know in 5th that first you turn to face, then you tank shock. Am I right in assuming that if a unit charges your side, you actually aren't able to tank shock because you can't turn to face the enemy without moving within 1", or indeed even moving models from the enemy unit befor even begnning the tank shock? How's this work?

Brb pg. 63 Combat Results "The vehicle and the enemy remain where they are and are free to simply move away ..."

"If the vehicle pivots on the spot.......move these models out of the way as you shift the vehicle and then place them back in base contact..."

It seems clear that you may move away but once 1" away you must stay 1" away.
The stopping 1" away in tank shock is for enemy vehicles
(which wouldn't count if you were ramming)

You may pivot and tank shock but the pivot alone would not be enough you must move combat speed.

And with the second rule quoted it seem you could pivot and move the squad to the front of the tank and shock away.

Seems like a good opportunity to move that PF-equipped guy, or the MeltaBomb sgt. out of the way before Tank Shocking

Oh so the owner of the tank gets to move the models? Interesting. VERY interesting....

So then as far as the 1" thing goes, you said you can't go back in once I'm further than 1"- could I skirt the unit, then, basically breaking the 1" rule for as long as I stay in very close proximity, allowing me to get between the unit and impassible terrain for instance?

Personally spellbound, I wouldn't allow it, although the rules aren't totally clear in this instance I would give priority to the 1" rule and say that if you are moving your tank within 1" of my models, other than to move it away which is an allowance made in the assaulting vehicles rules, you are breaking the rules.

I think... as long as you are getting away (IOW, mostly a straight line) it isn't a problem. If you are trying to drive around the unit (like in a circle) that doesn't pass muster.

There's even strategies to place tanks 2.5" across from each other and shoot between the gap, because enemies can't approach through the space.

You can come within 1" of a tank to assault it.

Just to clarify. If you are assaulting those shooters, you can get within 1" of the tanks, even if you are not assaulting the tank. May be difficult with only a 6" charge, but with beasts it may come in handy.

coredump wrote:Just to clarify. If you are assaulting those shooters, you can get within 1" of the tanks, even if you are not assaulting the tank. May be difficult with only a 6" charge, but with beasts it may come in handy.

I'm personally not seeing this, would you mind explaining your reasoning, because as far as I can tell you can't, unless you just mean because you can assault multiple units at once, in which case you could come within 1" of the tanks, but if you were within 1" and couldn't make base to base with the original target unit you would be obliged to go base to base with the tank, and then would be forced to allocate attacks against the vehicle rather than support the units in base to base with the enemy infantry.

Sure.

p.34 second paragraph. Says you move like normal, except removes the 1" buffer part. So if your marine is 5" away from a unit of Nobs, but there are two trucks in the way. As long as there is a 1" gap between the trukks, you can get past them and to the Nobs. You don't have to assault the trukks, and even if the following marines can't get into base with the Nobs, they *can't* get into base with the trukks, unless you are also assaulting the trukks.

When passing through any gap, there has to be enough room for the base of the model to pass through, so 1" is sufficient as coredump said. Same for Vehicles, except you're using the size of the hull. The only thing that may would throw a kink in this is if you can't end your move 1" away from the models in the case of normal movement, not assaults.

I was wrong. PG 11, "Models in the Way". So for normal movement you must stay 1" away from enemy models. You can only pass through friendly units if there is enough of a gap for you to do so. The wording for 'Moving Assaulting Models' actually seems to be a bit contradictory. For example:

Pg 11, 'Models in the Way', "A model may not move into or through the space occupied by another model...or through a gap between friendly models that is smaller than its own base...size."

The above makes an allowance for moving through your own 'friendly' units as long as the gap between them is no smaller than the base size of the unit moving through them.

Pg 34, 'Moving Assaulting Models', "...following the same rules as in the Movement phase, with the exception that they may be moved within 1" of enemy models. This means that assaulting models may still not move through friendly or enemy models, may not pass through gaps narrower than their base, and may not move into base contact with enemy models from a unit they are not assaulting."

?!? Doesn't that contradict? I wouldn't be concerned except for the "...following the same rules as..." and "...may still not..."

Ummm, it says the same thing as the page 11, just uses different text.
pg 11:
A model may not move into or through the space occupied by another model
pg 34:
may still not move through friendly or enemy models

pg 11:
...or through a gap between friendly models that is smaller than its own base...size."
pg 34:
may not pass through gaps narrower than their base,

Then 34 adds in the restriction on units they're not assaulting ands removes the restriction on 1".

don_mondo wrote:Ummm, it says the same thing as the page 11, just uses different text.
pg 11:
A model may not move into or through the space occupied by another model
pg 34:
may still not move through friendly or enemy models

pg 11:
...or through a gap between friendly models that is smaller than its own base...size."
pg 34:
may not pass through gaps narrower than their base,

Then 34 adds in the restriction on units they're not assaulting ands removes the restriction on 1".

I know you're trying to make a 1:1 comparison, but I don't think its possible. The reason being, GW isn't writing the rules at a 1:1 comparison. The 'may not' statements which are seperated by commas become seperate rule instances for moving a model into assault. So while an assaulting unit can move through a gap the size of their base and larger, they are still prohibited from moving through either friendly or enemy troops. So just pulling out parts and not looking at the whole context makes it easy to say that pg 11 and 34 are saying the same. That's why I ran quotes of the entire sentences from those pages. But my real concern is the portion I highlighted in red. That bit of text brings into question the possibility of a contradiction.

I certainly concede that both of these are rules for different turns and as such change movement, but why did they add the "...following the same rules as in the Movement phase,..."? So the real question becomes: Can a unit move through a friendly unit, in the movement phase, as long as their base size is less or equal to the size of the gaps between the models in the unit they are trying to pass through? Page 11 says yes, np. Page 34 says no.

how does Page 34 say that a unit cannot move through another friendly unit provided there is enough spacing between thier bases. It seems like you are confusing the terms model and unit maybe. They cannot move through friendly models, but there is nothing stopping them from moving between friendly models in a unit.

Drunkspleen wrote:how does Page 34 say that a unit cannot move through another friendly unit provided there is enough spacing between thier bases. It seems like you are confusing the terms model and unit maybe. They cannot move through friendly models, but there is nothing stopping them from moving between friendly models in a unit.

The rules I'm questioning only refer to enemy or friendly models on both pg 11 and 34. The only time the rules use the term unit in these quotes is: "...may not move into base contact with enemy models from a unit they are not assaulting". I have used the term unit to describe a grouping of models because I've always believed it was possible to move through your own units, specifically one unit of troops moving through another unit of troops. You have to infer from the rules that a unit and models can be synonomous. If you don't make this inferrance, then according to RAW, it is specifically not allowed for a unit to move through another unit because of the questionable wording on pg 34.

For me it does change some movement possibilities both in the normal movement phase and the assault phase. Maybe I was just wrong to begin with thinking I could move one friendly unit through another friendly unit. It certainly wouldn't be the first time. Wow, talk about off topic...lol. I should have started my own thread, apologies to the OP.

I think you are inferring more from the rules than they really say, I believe the restriction on moving through enemy or friendly models given on page 34 only means you cannot measure directly through models when moving.

There's a reason GW has a wide range of terms they use each with it's own meaning and a reason that in this situation they chose to use models rather than units or groups of models or some other similar phrase. I still cannot see any reason, other than claiming that the term "models" means one or more units of enemy troops, rather than one or more models, that you would not be able to move through a gap the size of your base between two models in another unit.

I'm going to post a new topic for this so this thread can resume it's course...I appreciate the input.