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So i walked into the FLGS and saw a Grey Knights vs lash i walk up to the table and think this grey knights guy got whooped only to realise all the obliterators up the side were casualties and the daemon princes were on 1 wound, and he had only a squad of plague marines left, then the game finishes im not sure but they grey knight dude had a single land raider but a tonne of Grey Knight Terminators, and Power Armour Grey Knights, im not sure what the special HQ was since i dont run grey knights or face them at all, but how often does a grey knight list beat dual lash? it seemed very strange that this grey knight dude tabled a dual lash build, and when i asked the chaos guy why he lost he promptly said, well you cant lash grey knights without killing yourself. So is there something about grey knights that makes you not want to lash them closer? The grey knight dude only mentioned that was a build he was testing and had to go. But yeah, what possibly could a Grey Knight army with only a single land raider have in it to wipe out a tonne of PM's / Oblits and wound the DP's to a single wound each by the final round

I looked it up and I have no idea. Only thing that would be useful against lash is their amour which works as a hood.

It sounds like the Chaos play doesn't know what he's doing. Someone needs to tell him that you don't have to lash things closer to you. You can lash things and push them away from you!

The land raider and occupants are the only thing he truely has to worry about (because you can't lash a vehicle). But if he was running Oblits and Daemon Princes then that shouldn't even be an issue.

Shouding isn't effective if he's within range of the lash. The lash has a 24 inch range, and shrouding averages out around 26 to 35 inches. The Psychic Hood (Ld 10 vs Ld 10) will be able to stop the lash 15 out of 36 times, or 41.7% of the time. But with two lashes he should be able to push back key targets and focus his efforts on one unit at a time.

P.S. I remember Grey Knights having something that could possibly block a psychic power if it targeted the unit. But I thought it was basically another psychic hood (which can only be used once per psychic power). I don't have the codex, what is that ability?

~Logic

if they've a null rod (10pts) no psychic powers will work on that unit (but that unit can't use them ether)

grey knights are in fact best used as shooting army so if you use lash to push them back you're doing them a favour

Not sure exactly what tactics the GK player used for the obliterators other than Nemesis force weapons. A squad of GKT would tear through Plague Marines (S6 Power weapons).

It is extremely difficult to use psychic powers on Grey Knights especially if they have a psychic hood on the field. Here is the sequence.

Chaos Player must pass psychic test then 50% chance of being nullified by psychic hood. Since it is a shooting type attack he must roll 3D6x3 for spotting distance vs. the shrouding. Finally all GK have Aegeis suits so if they are targetted they get another 4+ save vs. psychic attacks. It depends on range and such but I would guess the power would only be effective 10-20% of the time.
If the lash fails the DP or sorcerer is hanging out in the wind.
Pure Grey Knights are the rock to the Dual lash armies scissors.

ptlangley wrote:Not sure exactly what tactics the GK player used for the obliterators other than Nemesis force weapons. A squad of GKT would tear through Plague Marines (S6 Power weapons).

It is extremely difficult to use psychic powers on Grey Knights especially if they have a psychic hood on the field. Here is the sequence.

Chaos Player must pass psychic test then 50% chance of being nullified by psychic hood. Since it is a shooting type attack he must roll 3D6x3 for spotting distance vs. the shrouding. Finally all GK have Aegeis suits so if they are targetted, they get another 4+ save vs. psychic attacks. It depends on range and such but I would guess the power would only be effective 10-20% of the time.
If the lash fails the DP or sorcerer is hanging out in the wind.
Pure Grey Knights are the rock to the Dual lash armies scissors.

You're a bit off..

A Grey Knights unit targeted by a psychic power may block it by using either their Aegis armour or a psychic hood, not both. The Aegis rule works like a psychic hood rather than the 4+ save you mentioned (Unguents of Warding gives a 4+ vs psychic powers).

The Null Rod is an Inquisitor weapon so if the GK player mentioned in the OP was pure GK, then NR's were not being used.

Would be interesting to see a full bat-rep but I will guess at the chaos player just playing bad.

OP said "im not sure what the special HQ was since i dont run grey knights " an Inquisitor?

would be nice for a battle report but thats unlikely

ptlangley wrote:Not sure exactly what tactics the GK player used for the obliterators other than Nemesis force weapons. A squad of GKT would tear through Plague Marines (S6 Power weapons).

It is extremely difficult to use psychic powers on Grey Knights especially if they have a psychic hood on the field. Here is the sequence.

Chaos Player must pass psychic test then 50% chance of being nullified by psychic hood. Since it is a shooting type attack he must roll 3D6x3 for spotting distance vs. the shrouding. Finally all GK have Aegeis suits so if they are targetted they get another 4+ save vs. psychic attacks. It depends on range and such but I would guess the power would only be effective 10-20% of the time.
If the lash fails the DP or sorcerer is hanging out in the wind.
Pure Grey Knights are the rock to the Dual lash armies scissors.

Also if you're within 24" shrouding really isnt going to help you too much. Rolling 3d6 x 3 your range for effectiveness is really 30" and beyond (and thats a 50/50 shot). It CAN work within 24", but its not like its really much of a problem. (it's not too difficult to roll 7-8 on three dice)

Tactics > Power lists in noob hands

Grey Knights have an awesome ranged game. He just probably couldn't hide everything effectively. They have Psycannons too right? Those things are pretty brutal.

SandSons wrote: The grey knight dude only mentioned that was a build he was testing and had to go. But yeah, what possibly could a Grey Knight army with only a single land raider have in it to wipe out a tonne of PM's / Oblits and wound the DP's to a single wound each by the final round

Well, for starters GK's have access to psychic hoods, and every GK squad is protected by their armor, which acts as a psychic hood against psychic powers that target them. Each one carries a stormbolter giving them fairly good firepower at range, and because they are assault weapons they can move and still fire two shots out to 24". In hand to hand they are strength 6 with 2 attacks each. Every PA squad has a justicar with 3 attacks and a str6 power weapon in it. Terminators all have str6 power weapons. All GK are WS5. All GK's are fearless.

Put all this together and you have basic troops that hit chaos marines on 3's, and wound on 2's, with no armor save. Plauge marines are wounded on 3's, but get no 'feel no pain'. Demon Princes really don't like getting near them either.

Double lash isn't a guarantee that you win, especially against an army like GK's. In fact, it's probably working against the Chaos player at times. You get used to using the Lash as a crutch to prop you up, then hit an army that can neutralize it and don't know what to do.

I play Grey Knights.

I'm pretty darned good with them.

I hope to avoid Lash games at GT's.

It's possible that he was running his PAGK squads as Fast Attack, allowing him to Deepstrike them in. If he had good scatters, a full squad of GKs can easily dump so many shots into small Oblit squads to wipe them out in a turn. Then if the Chaos player made the mistake of charging into close combat with his useful stuff instead of trying to mitigate his losses, GKs would easily put the hurting on.

Pure GKs is a dream matchup for dual-lash. It doesnt guarantee any win, if you play bad you still loose or if you are obscenly unlucky but the odds are highly stacked in your favour.

frgsinwntr wrote:Tactics > Power lists in noob hands

Tactics, real Tactics > Power lists.

~sA