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Hey all, Now I know we all hear about the nob bikers and the lash armies running around and I wonder, is their any way to make a sm power build using the new codex.

I figure what we can do with this topic is throw out ideas and try to come up with the best power build we can at 1700 points.

First things first we all know meltas are where we want to be at for killing vehicles, that and th/ss termies are the ideal cc unit, Sterns are nothing more then tank hunters in a drop pod. And rhinos are nothing better then giving your opponent kp's.

for a real power build the only hq choice I think needs to be in it is the forge father, not only does he make th master crafted he also makes melta weapons twinlinked. Both very good otpions and hes a hard hitting combat machine with his relic blade.

One down side to him is you lose combat tactics. Which is a very useful ability.

So well heres the start to it, what do you all think needs to go in for a real power build capable of taking on those top tier armies

Well, If at all possible, i was looking at taking something like this for an army to play if I don't want to keep my friends.

Vulkan ( altough he might be wasted on a list like this,)

2 LR (any variant, though crusader might be worst suited)

2 termie sqauds

3 vindicators.

Rhinos razors and whatever troops you still have points for.

Assault or biker squad to provide light anti assault support ( or maybe land speeders)

Obviously, the whole plan is based around the vindicators, and forcing your opponent to make tough decisions about target priority.

This list will have problems against sit and shoot tau (from what I remember about the old codeex and know about the new one), and hordes of infantry that don't stick together. Mech eldar would also have ways of dealing with this, but the weaponry on the LR's and whether or not you have speeders.

It should be able to crush anything resembling a spearhead... but then again... maybe not

Vindis are nice but I find they get taken out far to easily. Theirs to many st7+ weapons running about to have 3 vindis in a power build.

Granted I love my vindi, its an awesome tank so their ar eno har dfeeling sthier, but well see what othe rideas we get in this thread.

Land speeders are far to squishy, nuff said on that subject.

I think the best bet to go with the tac squads is drop pods. Drop them where you need them, there tougher then a rhino and they can contest things on there own. Also helps to get them where there needed faster then a rhino would. If the rhino dies there foot slogging but with a drop pod they are already there.

Crusader woudlent be a good idea as the lastcannons help alot with anti tank. Dont have to throw more points into anti tank if you have 2 running around.

Vulcan imho is more of a close quarters specialist and he makes the army a cc force with thunder hammers. Heres the list I propose for a pwoer build.

Vulkan

Assualt termie squad, ss/th
Land raider

tact squad
combi melta
melta
multimelta
Powerfist
drop pod

tact squad
combi melta
melta
multimelta
Powerfist
drop pod

Sterngaurd squad
10 combi meltas
drop pod

Now with this list theirs still 235 points left to spend on what ever. Maybe a scout squad with telion, camo cloak, snipers, and rocket launcher to gaurd an objective in the base.

Another idea is another assualt termie squad that just deep strikes. throw a beacon onto one of the drop pods and granted you roll them your opponent will either have to deal with 5 termies or 10 sterns. Want to give him to much to shoot at that youl still have something left for your next turn.

You have 2 drop pods first turn one with sterny and one with tac squad. Sterns pop 2 tanks with combat squading The other tac squad shoots at what ever is juiciest.

You also have another drop pod in reserves. can drop on any other objec if you feel the need to or help out the 20 marines dropping in the enemys deploy zone.

Youl almost be guaranteed to drop 2 tanks first turn with vulkans making the combi meltas twin linked

Assault termies in land raider are a scary cc unit that can take on anything their thrown against.

Golga wrote:
Vindis are nice but I find they get taken out far to easily. Theirs to many st7+ weapons running about to have 3 vindis in a power build.

Granted I love my vindi, its an awesome tank so their ar eno har dfeeling sthier, but well see what othe rideas we get in this thread.

Were you imbibing before you posted this? I can't understand half of what you said above. People come here to have intelligent conversations about the game they love. If you can't even bother to spell correctly maybe you should try blogging. I see you are from Canada so there is no excuse for such poor English.

Anyways to say that there is a plethora of S7+ weapons is kind of weak as an argument against taking vindicators. Look how popular the Iron Clad is now.

Land speeders are far to squishy, nuff said on that subject.

The landspeeder is still a great choice actually since it is relatively inexpensive and has a large number of weapons to choose from. They are also good at contesting objectives late in the game. My favorite configuration is the Typhoon with a multi-melta... that is the potential for three S8 shots.

I think the best bet to go with the tac squads is drop pods. Drop them where you need them, there tougher then a rhino and they can contest things on there own. Also helps to get them where there needed faster then a rhino would. If the rhino dies there foot slogging but with a drop pod they are already there.

You don't see any of the top gamers running drop pods. While they might seem intimidating to the newbie there are so many ways to beat drop pod armies, such as simply castling then blasting them apart and charging them first. It's almost too easy.

Crusader woudlent be a good idea as the lastcannons help alot with anti tank. Dont have to throw more points into anti tank if you have 2 running around.

Again a friendly request to type better. I just say that as a kind suggestion so others will hopefully take you serious when you post.

Vulcan imho is more of a close quarters specialist and he makes the army a cc force with thunder hammers. Heres the list I propose for a pwoer build.

Vulkan is okay but you realize if you load up on melta weapons your army is going to be hamstrung right off the bat by their relatively short range? Right. Anyways 'pwoer' is spelt 'power' (hint hint).

Vulkan

Assualt termie squad, ss/th
Land raider

tact squad
combi melta
melta
multimelta
Powerfist
drop pod

tact squad
combi melta
melta
multimelta
Powerfist
drop pod

Sterngaurd squad
10 combi meltas
drop pod

You do know that one deep striking Oblit can blast that LR right off the table don't you? How do you plan to deal with that?

To be completely honest I don't see anything in your list that hasn't already been suggested. Sternguard are very expensive, come in, blast something then get wiped off the table.

G

How nice of you to say I'm a jack ass but here's what you should do as well. Must be one of the reasons I don't like you much. Anyways getting off track.

Of course I know that if you take melta weapons your going to get screwed over on the short range. As you have probably noticed. (maybe not as you posted the above) That the tac squads have drop pods. this gets them where they want very quickly giving them the best chance they have of using there meltas.

As for my st7+ argument. Admittedly it is pretty fragile, But as you say whats to stop a unit of deep striking oblits deep striking down and nuking all 3?

The land speeders are nice in themselves. but one can get taken out far to easily and if you throw 3 in a squad that's asking for trouble.

So should you throw in more then one ( Ie take up all your fast attack choices with 1 in each so you have 3 individual ones floating around.) Or do you just go for the one and hope it doesn't get shot down by a bunch of bolters.

Imho Attack bikes are by far the better option over speeders. Same points cost minus upgrades plus you get turbo boost, 2 wounds and their by far much more usefull in a squad then speeders ever will.

Sterngaurd are expensive yes but what unit can deal with a land raider better then them? If it makes you feel better we could throw in just 5 in a drop pod all with meltas. Your pretty much guaranteed to nuke anything when they drop.

Also gbf for further posts unless its helpful criticism don't bother posting it, yes we all know if a unit of oblits deep strike by my land raider chances are its going to die. So what is the best way to deal with lists like that and win the game. That is what this thread is looking for.

@ Blow Fly

Wow dude way to shoot a guy down

Hey GBF, wasn't that what you were arguing couldn't happen against your SM power list?

Mekboy wrote:Hey GBF, wasn't that what you were arguing couldn't happen against your SM power list?

Ah some one said it and it wasent me . I didn't want to because I don't want this thread to turn into gbf whining again.

Anyways back to what this thread was originally about. Any suggestions on whats being said above about making the power build?

I just found it funny that someone so opposed to use of an LRC would put it in his list and call it a power build.

G

Here you go my own personal guide to a marine powerbuild.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/225259.page

Nice thread you have going on yermom. I think Golgo can learn some useful strategies for list building there.

G

Vulkan no doubt gives you some of the most bang for your buck. For sheer power taking him in conjunction with maxed out attack bikes is fantastic.

At the 'Ard Boyz level I'd run this as a power build:

vulkan 190
5 tactical terminators w heavy flamer, chainfist 210
+dedicated land raider w/ multi melta 260
5 assault terminators w/ TH/SS 200
+dedicated land raider redeemer w/ multi melta 250
2x 5 scouts w/ shotguns, melta bombs 80
3x 3 attack bikes w/ multi melta 150
3x land raider w/ multi melta 260

2,500 points, 13 kill points, 2 scoring units

2 flamestorm cannons 2 TL heavy flamers, 14 TL multi meltas, 8 TL lascannons, 4 TL heavy bolters, 9 TL bolters, 4 storm bolters, 10 shotguns, 1 assault cannon

Near as I can tell this will out-gun anything as long as you manoeuvre well. Keep everything mounted and redeploy 12" every turn. Obviously the scouts are the list's Achilles heel. I run the land raiders in pairs for this reason so the surviving scouts can hop into a new land raider if the one they were riding in is destroyed.

There are many things that can destroy a land raider easily. Play expecting to lose your redeemer and 1-2 land raiders but increase their survivability by moving 12" each turn and hiding the paired ones behind each other while the front one uses its smoke launchers.


In a similar and equally brutal vein, Shrike's Unkillable Fleeting Assault Terminators of Doom:

2,500
shrike 195
lysander 200
2x 10 assault terminators w/ thunder hammer + storm shield 400
7 assault terminators w/ thunder hammer + storm shield, dedicated land raider crusader w/ multi melta 540
10 scouts w/ bolters, teleport homer, heavy bolter, melta bombs 170
5 scouts w/ sniper rifles, camo cloaks 90
land raider w/ multi melta 260
land raider redeemer w/ multi melta 250

In Kill Points missions:
Shrike Infiltrates w/ 10 terminators or Outflanks in crusader w/ 7 terminators
Lysander deploys in a land raider redeemer
7 terminators deploy in land raider crusader
10 terminators combat squad and deploy in land raider and redeemer or stay 10 man squad and deep strike on homer
10 scouts infiltrate to knock out first turn light vehicle or small squad, or hang back or flank/go in reserves to deny KP
5 scouts infiltrate to good line of fire or flank/go in reserves to deny KP
10/11 Kill Points

In Objective Missions:
Shrike Infiltrates with 7 terminators
Lysander runs beside land raiders
2x 10 terminators combat squad and run beside land raiders
10 scouts combat squad and ride in land raider and redeemer to tank shock and claim objectives
5 scouts ride in land raider crusader to tank shock and claim objectives
3 scoring units

I don't know if this is more or less of a power build. It can certainly cause a lot of hurt and it's got a 3rd scoring land raider but less (and less accurate) firepower. To counter this, almost nothing whatsoever can stand up to them in combat and they can move and charge like dark eldar but hit like the proverbial cartoon anvil.

I know the idea here wasn't specifically for 'Ard Boyz armies, but I feel that codexes can be pushed to their natural extremes better at that level. The concepts of these armies remain the same at lower points levels though and play to the new codex's strengths.

So it looking like my original power build is gaining some acceptance... basically special characters, terminators and landraiders.

Anyways now I am thinking the way to go is a squad of ten terminators so you can split them into combat squads... all with storm shields and t hammers.

G

Golga wrote:

As for my st7+ argument. Admittedly it is pretty fragile, But as you say whats to stop a unit of deep striking oblits deep striking down and nuking all 3?

I'd jsut like to say first tha I apologize if this point has been argued yet, but I haven't read the full blog yet, and would like to adress this.

To have any reliability of killing the 3 vindicators you would need at least 2 oblits in each squad, and that would be much harder to do with 3 targets, which you would have only 1 turn to kill. That is of course, assuming that the oblits can get to them, as the idea was to have the vindicators good and surrounded by other tanks. I realise that if you could do this, the entire army is pretty much done... actually, completely done, but it would be hard to do. As always I may be mistaken, but with the old chaos dex it would be difficult to do. Also, S7 weapons, indead all long range weapons would have the choice of shooting at the land raider, or shooting at the vindicator which will have cover, though one may be destroyed by the time I get in range, I think it would be much more difficult to kill 2 or even (emperor forbid) 3 of the vindicators.

The land speeders are nice in themselves. but one can get taken out far to easily and if you throw 3 in a squad that's asking for trouble.

So should you throw in more then one ( Ie take up all your fast attack choices with 1 in each so you have 3 individual ones floating around.) Or do you just go for the one and hope it doesn't get shot down by a bunch of bolters.

Imho Attack bikes are by far the better option over speeders. Same points cost minus upgrades plus you get turbo boost, 2 wounds and their by far much more usefull in a squad then speeders ever will.

The land speeders are very squishy, unreasonably so, however, with the ecxeption of regular LR's they will provide the only decent anti fire support in the spear head, that is, until the vindicators arrive. They will do especially well against mech eldar (I think, as always, my knowledge is based off what I've learned from this site-which isn't much because I don't pay all that much attention to non SM stuff- and what I remember from the last codex) which is one of the forseeable antitheses of my army idea

Sterngaurd are expensive yes but what unit can deal with a land raider better then them? If it makes you feel better we could throw in just 5 in a drop pod all with meltas. Your pretty much guaranteed to nuke anything when they drop.

Also gbf for further posts unless its helpful criticism don't bother posting it, yes we all know if a unit of oblits deep strike by my land raider chances are its going to die. So what is the best way to deal with lists like that and win the game. That is what this thread is looking for.

One last thing....

Why cant weeee be friends

Why cant weeee be friends?

Why cant weeee be friends

Right untiiiil thee end?

Green Blow Fly wrote:
Anyways now I am thinking the way to go is a squad of ten terminators so you can split them into combat squads... all with storm shields and t hammers.

G

I don't know... I really think, that shearly as a defensive tool, they need to take at least 1 assault termie with lightning claws. This guy will charge in with 4 attacks, and against an SM will kill 12/8ths of a marine. not a lot, and if you take two, you kill 3 marines.

Thunder marines will kill 30/24ths of a marine, but after taking 11/24ths of a casualty, while the 2 lightning marines would reduce that to 1/3 of a kill, not a lot, but it might merrit it, especially against more deadly infantry squads

Thanks G.

I am partial to all hammers but if you want to run some claws I am cool with that.

Yeah and let's all be super friends!

Merry Christmas everyone!!!

: )

G

I have mentioned in a different post...It you put two units of 6-man termies against each other, one all LCx2 and the other all TH/SS, the LC termies will on average kill 3 TH termies before they can react. They will then kill 2 LC termies. The next turn, the LC's will take out another 2 TH termies leaving only one to attack back. It takes out 1 LC leaving 3 LC to 1 TH for the third assault phase in which the LC's take out the TH leaving 3 LC's on the board. Even if you take Vulkan and get the 1 re-roll to hit per model, that still leaves 1-2 LC on the board when the last TH is killed.
Granted, LC termies will have trouble with MC's.
So in a 5-man unit, I run 3xLC, 2xTH/SS, in 6-man I run 3xLC, 3xTH/SS.

That's good for all I4 and below models, but what about I5+ or higher Toughness models? Daemon princes will knock out 2-3 of the LC termies and Hive Tyrants will have a field day.

The new SM codex only has one way to get I5 marines...Kor'sarro Khan gives his unit Furious Charge.
But like i said above, the LC's have a problem against MC's.

Asugradinwa's Long Range Space Marine Power Build for 1850 points:

HQ: Master of the Forge with conversion beamer

HQ: Inquisitor Lord with Psycannon, Psychic Hood, Auspex.
2 Mystics
1 Hierophant
1 Sage
3 Gun Servitors with heavy bolter

Elite: Dreadnought with Plasma cannon & twin Linked Auto cannon

Elite: Dreadnought with Plasma cannon & twin Linked Auto cannon

Elite: Dreadnought with Plasma cannon & twin Linked Auto cannon

Troop: 10 man Scout Squad with Camo cloaks 8 Sniper rifles, 1 heavy bolter with hellfire rounds, Sgt Telion

Troop: 10 man Tactical Squad with Melta Gun, Lascannon, Razorback with heavy bolter

Troop: 10 man Scout Squad with 4 sniper rifles, 1 missile launcher, 4 shotguns, sgt with shotgun & combi Melta

Fast Attack: Land Speeder with Multimelta

Fast Attack: 2 Attack Bikes with Multi Meltas

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Storm with Multi Melta

Heavy Support: Vindicator

Heavy Support: Thunderfire Cannon

Heavy Support: Thunderfire Cannon


This is pretty much a set up and sit list. Put the dreads in front of the thunderfires to give a cover save. Remember the Land Speeder Storm can either Scout or outflank. With 5 scouts with shotguns and a combimelta they can either provide some first turn carnage or wait in reserves to capture an objective later in the game. The Attack bikes can usually get into 12'"range in the first turn for the added d6. The other land speeder can either deep strike or swoop in for a first turn shot.

The lascannon squad goes tank hunting, Telion's Squad goes Heavy/Special Weapons hunting, and you split the other scout squad into short & long range. Attach the Master to whatever unit you want his added fire power.

Dreads either go transport or troop hunting. Though I would wait and try to get any 2+ armor troops on the table and sick the plasma cannons on them. Nothing like blowing up a land raider and terminators in the first turn.

The inquisitor Lord is there to stop deep strikes and try to shut down any enemy psychic powers. If you are facing daemons or a drop poding army you'll have a ton of fun.

Nob Bikers, quick strike Nids, & shooty Tau will give this list issues.

Nobs: Use those Thunderfire sub rounds to make the bikers take a dangerous terrain test followed up by a vindicator blast and just hope you kill enough of them before they hit your lines.

Nids: Cross your fingers and fire everything you can. If you have the option get turn 1 so you have two turns of shooting before they hit.

Tau: Get all the melta you can in range of the disruption pod skimmers and let them have it. Once the fire warriors are out of the devilfish they fall quick prey to the dreads or the shotgun scouts that are assaulting them. Plus if they are coming off the Land Speeder Storm those fire warriors will be running for sure once they lose close combat.

A little heavy on kill points but you should be able to kill enough the first couple of turns for it not to matter.

Green Blow Fly wrote:So it looking like my original power build is gaining some acceptance... basically special characters, terminators and landraiders.

Anyways now I am thinking the way to go is a squad of ten terminators so you can split them into combat squads... all with storm shields and t hammers.

G

All those things are good yes, but to stick them all into one squad is why people were so opposed to your original build gbf. As for list building i'm perfectly fine making my own and I win far more then I lose. I just wanted to see what we as a community could come up with in terms of power builds for the new space marine codex.

I'm also far from opposed at putting a land raider in a power build. its a good idea. to throw in a 600+ point unit is where I thought you went wrong the first time.

Also gbf I don't mock your name at least spell mine correctly.

Actually people were opposed to GBF's proposal because he had a lot of sunk points in the form of Calgar+Lysander+Chronus. I advocated for another squad of termies and a land raider rather than the "Friends" part of his combo.

I am now running dual LRCs.

G