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and if so why?

I've been researching for my new army (finally marines), and I've been thinking it would be fun to create a drop pod army (5 tactical squads, 3 ironclads), but all reference to them seems to be old, so here is the question?

What am I missing, on the surface drop pods seems like a viable tactical choice:

- Nothing on the table to begin with, nothing to kill
- Ability to hit objectives hard
- Ability to disrupt opponents strategy, and hit support choices

Some of the obvious weak points are of course:

- Unpredictable (can somewhat be countered by locator beacons)
- No tanks, (but ironclads secure staying power - i think)

So please any advice you might have, including links to previous posts on the subject in regard to 5th edition will be really welcome.

/Chris

A while back Stelek posted a list based around Drop Pod Sternguard with Combi-Meltas and Gate Librarians in support. The Pods have pie plates and locator beacons.

I am currently working on the models for a similar, but toned down version of the list.

I think the Sternguard in a pod are a powerful enough option that you can base a list around them, swapping some out for Ironclads, Assault Marines, Terminators, other stuff that can DS.

I think the strength of the list is the strangeness of the depoloyment and the Melta fire. It's also a fast list that can go get objectives, which I'm starting to see is critical, after playing a few games of Capture and Control in Spearhead deployment. You can beat the crap out of the other guy, but it takes so long to get to his zone, you can still end up drawing.

The weakness of playing nothing but pods is dedicating a huge amount of points (sometimes more than 1/6th of your total list) to one-use transports and trickling into the field piecemeal (1/2 first turn, 1/4 second turn, 1/6th third turn, etc).

However, both of those weaknesses can be circumvented easily if you utilize drop pods as a first strike element that is supported by a larger, deployed force. I personally feel that the "perfect" number of drop pods is between 3 and 5. Minimal points expenditure, and you are guaranteed 2-3 important pods to come in on turn 1, with 1-2 support pods to show up later in the battle.

sourclams wrote:
However, both of those weaknesses can be circumvented easily if you utilize drop pods as a first strike element that is supported by a larger, deployed force. I personally feel that the "perfect" number of drop pods is between 3 and 5. Minimal points expenditure, and you are guaranteed 2-3 important pods to come in on turn 1, with 1-2 support pods to show up later in the battle.

Ok, just so i understand you correctly, you still keep you whole army in pods? or you have some deployed on the table?

/Chris

The vast majority of my army (in terms of model count) is on the table.

Drop pods are used to get sternguard or dreadnoughts closer to the enemy.

Spamming drop pods is "too much of a good thing" complex. Running 3-5 drop pods with certain influential units in them, like Ironclad Dreads or Sternguard, and rapid insertion into enemy lines while the rest of your army hoofs it up the field in support turns them into valuable line breakers, optimizing your unit placement to trade fewer points of your own for more of your enemy's.

I think of putting all my army in drop pods

or is that sucky with the fact that all my army comes on 2nd turn

Keep in mind that every drop pod is an auto KP.

That's a false assumption. Drop pods are still AV12 vehicles. If your opponent is wasting his heavy weapons on the drop pod, he's not shooting whatever came out of it. Likewise, killing them in the assault, while easy, can be brutal when they explode (which they invariably do). I've found drop pods to be incredibly useful when fighting Green Tide armies because they charge in for the "easy" KP, make the pod explode, and lose 10 Orks to the blast.

Do drop pods inflate the KP of your army? Yes, but your opponent has to make the choice to kill them. IG do it easily, everybody else not so much.

You are correct. The drop pod is only immobilized. To count as a KP, it must be completely destroyed.

sourclams wrote: I've found drop pods to be incredibly useful when fighting Green Tide armies because they charge in for the "easy" KP, make the pod explode, and lose 10 Orks to the blast.

Had not giving much thought to the whole KP thing, but thats, an important point. In regard to the green tide, I play orks myself and I have learned how to assault tanks without bringing more than necessary orks within 4" - something learned the hard way.

A few general questions though?

- Do your pods have deathwind launchers? ie. fighting horde or you find them too much a hassle
- Do you supplement your pods with other deepstriking units, like termies, using the locators?

/Chris

A fully drop podded army can be competitive.
Half of the pods arrive at first turn. If the enemy goes first, she has nothing to shoot at.
The tactics is rather simple in objective-based missions: Three Dreads arrive close to the enemy front ranks, while the Tacticals land upon the objectives.

Drop Pod armies are still effective, but I think many people have soured on the idea because of the large number of KPs they tend to yield and because so much more depends on getting second turn (because objectives are now much more important than in 4th edition). Space Wolves can put out some pretty disgusting DP armies.

Since the all-drop army was the rage a few years ago, most tourney gamers have a plan if they encounter the all-drop army. OTOH, since people don't seem to play them as much, people aren't gearing their armies to defeat drop pods.

You can go mechanized, with everyone in rhinos, and use similar tactics. Rhinos block LOS, everyone jumps out, and shoots up one unit. Repeat.

Pod armies are still very tough, but as has been said they were so popular for so long that most good players have come up with counters to it. I played pods all through 4th, and it was the kind of army that would destroy someone that first few time you played them, but after that in game tactics could really minimize its effectiveness.

If you go all pods you have some good and bad points.

For one, with the new rules, you put half of your pods down firs turn which is great if you re playing an army that is spread out and all on the board. you pop in, alpha strike and do a large amount of damage. The problem to this is that if you opponant castles or deploys in such a way that you can only shoot expendable units, you have a situation where you have half your army getting assaulted, shot by most all of his.

the other problem with this is that if he starts his army in reserve, you drop onto an empty board. against fast assault armies or mobile shooty armies like tau, this sucks as they either dogpile yourunits piece meal, or they back up and shoot the hell out of you. since most shooty pod units are relatively short ranged, you get creamed in this scenario.

on the plus side, played well the alpha strike can really do some damage. Either drop sterngaurd with loads of combi meltas of flamers to take out key units or drop assault units like terminators so that they can assault the next turn. This combines with kayvan shrike really makes for a nasty far reaching assault army that can pop out behind their pods for cover then assault at full strength the following turn.

honestly though now, i feel that a combined pod and non pod army is best. this is what i settled on last eddition after years of practice. Take one to three pods with either sterngaurd, ironclads or assault terminators to drop turn one where ever you need them, and depending on the style you play, take either vulkan for rerolls on shooting your all important special weapons, or shrike to give your assault units a long reach out of the pods. this combines with an infiltrating scout unit and shrike with an assault unit gives you a massive first and second turn assault punch.

as for the pods themselves, i like to keep them cheap, although i have not tried the deathwinds yet so i really cant say as to how eefective those may be. the locator beacons though are fantastic for a fully deepstriking army.

anyway, short answer, yes, pods still work great, as does any deepstriking army. its just a bit of a gamble.

Fully drop podding armies can be very effective. However I've seen two drop pods scatter off the bored in a first turn assault.

Plus those pesky mystics can really ruin a fully podded army's day.

asugradinwa wrote:Fully drop podding armies can be very effective. However I've seen two drop pods scatter off the bored in a first turn assault.

Plus those pesky mystics can really ruin a fully podded army's day.

Scatter off the board should not happen if the Pod is placed correctly taking into account enemy units and terrain.

Mystics are hardly played these days so that I don't really fear them.

It's expensive in real-life points, to be sure. My girlfriend bought me one, but I need three to make my SMs playable since the new codex. Now I've finished my Eldar list, I may get a couple more... but I really didn't enjoy assembling the model either.

I believe St. Elek said it best; 'Going second is the new going first.'

i still use mystics in my IG army for the hood on the Inquis and because IG are so weak against deep stirkers, but i have to admit, that it isnt exactly something you need to meta game for.

Yeah, i wish they would have made it so that half of the pods came in automatically 2nd turn, that would have been a lot more effective. but oh well, it is what it is.

I plan on using many drop pods in my army, except I plan on scratch building them. I already have one done, actually. Better then paying $30 for each, though it takes ages to build them from scratch.

Im gonna make a MotF ironclad list. 1500pts and its gonna make me soo broke. Im blond so i might actually be out of fashion thus through association my army might be too... Unsure.

pod armies are great, but you have to realize that you are giving your opponent a chance to capture objectives. Units like sternguard and dreadnoughts benefit greatly from pods, as they have the fire power to drop in and do some damage. Tactical squads however can drop in and try to take an objective but all they can do is shoot with bolters. Bolters are great, but agaisnt most armies, it is just not going to cut it. Personally, one of the best things I have seen and tried is to drop three cheap, stormbolter drop pods with dreadnoughts with assault cannons and flamers into the enemy deployment zone (just always stay 12 inches from a border) and watch them deal with them. While you are doing this, shrike and some assualt marines do a great job running through and cleaning up.

I think people have yet to realize that full Drop Armies are highly competitive.

I will go out on a limb and say that New Codex Drop Pod armies can be even more effective then the early days of fourth edition.

Combos such as Kantor and a Sternguard heavy drop list could work, but have too small a model count. I see two or three Tactical Squads supported by Librarians, Terminators, and Dreadnoughts to be an effective build.