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Let me know what you think, I'm looking for a challenge with this one on the battle field.

HQ
Grey Knight Brother Captain: Psychic Hood 81
Retinue: 4 x Grey Knight Terminator, 2 with Thunder Hammer/Storm shield 184

Elite
1x Inquisitor 90
Retinue: 2 x Mystic
Transport: Rhino, Extra Armor, Smoke

Troop
5x Grey Knight: Justicar, 2x Incinerator 170
5x Grey Knight: Justicar, 2x Incinerator 170
8x Grey Knight: Justicar, 2x Psycannon, Targeter 276

Heavy Support
Land Raider: Extra Armor, Smoke 258
Land Raider: Extra Armor, Smoke 258
Land Raider Crusader: Smoke 258

Total: 1745

Edit: Forgot to mention how it plays.

3 Land raiders stay together at range, rhino huddles in the certain for the Anti-deepstrike bubble provided by the mystics. Squad on foot sits on the home objective hopefully benefitting from the shrouding as much as possible. In a pinch the terminators can deepstrike and the last foot GK squad can hop into the crusader.

Pretty solid.

Differs from my style just a bit but I can see where you're going. I think the 5 man squads might be a bit light since they have incinerators, they HAVE to get in the thick of the fighting quickly and early to make their presence felt. This is the only thing I dont like. If you drop 5 man marine squads (and thats all PAGK's are despite their cost) in the middle of an enemy and expect heavy flamers to hamstring the enemy army enough to reduce any reprisal, I think you might be disappointed.

This army looks a bit light for standing off at range and fighting. It looks like it plans to barrel toward the enemy and flame/go hth with terminators. If you find you're having problems with winning games, this is where I'd look. Just a couple of options that you've taken dont really go with the "adaptive warfare" that most Grey Knight players are successful with.

I can see winning some games with this though, if you're VERY careful. ....and by VERY careful, I mean, if you play Grey Knights the only way they can be played successfully! No room for error with these boyz.

Thanks for the input, couple questions/comments:

The way I have it now I stand off, the 8 GK stay on foot firing, along with the land raiders, once the enemy is softened a bit the land raiders move up and drop the flames/GKTs into big threat squads.

However....

Whats your opinion on GKT's? Are they even needed? I find them hard to fit but end up wanting them just in case I hit some big unit that I need to take down, however with justicar power weapons, I'm not so sure they're needed.

Second, what's your opinion on the foot-GK squad that stays in the back field, is he just out of place in a list like this?

Drop the 2 Grey Knight squads to 5 ISTs with 2 flamers and use the 220 saved points to give your captain Holocaust and the Inquisitor a Land Raider instead of a Rhino.

targetawg wrote:
The way I have it now I stand off, the 8 GK stay on foot firing, along with the land raiders, once the enemy is softened a bit the land raiders move up and drop the flames/GKTs into big threat squads.

...fair enough, not a DEVESTATING shooting attack but depending on your opponent and target selection.....

I do pretty much exactly the same thing, without flames of course, but I'm using a termie-squad and 3 units of PAGK's to stormbolter units, add in 3 LR's, often standing still, and that gets me by. Thats a lot more shooting than you're using...but you're trying a different plan than I do. You'll see if it works or not, if it doesnt...I'd just suggest more ranged firepower to be more effective at range.

I'll point out that I dont really care for special weapons in my PAGK squads. Reason being is that you're paying extra points (10 or 25) to lose your Nemesis weapon (or almost all of what makes you special in CC) and your true grit ability. So sure, you've got a marine now, with a heavy flamer...that costs 35 pts, thats overcosted....or a Psycannon marine for 50pts...ouch. In my opinion the Incinerator SHOULD be free, and the psycannon only costing 10. Thats a bit more reasonable considering what you give up.

Another thing to consider, how good are psycannons nowadays? In these days of "cover saves everywhere" They're not nearly as effective as their point cost should reflect. STR 6 and range are really the only things they have going for them...and the range is only really usable on terminators.

targetawg wrote:
However....

Whats your opinion on GKT's? Are they even needed? I find them hard to fit but end up wanting them just in case I hit some big unit that I need to take down, however with justicar power weapons, I'm not so sure they're needed.

I've been heavily considering the GKT's. I think you need them in 5e. In 4e you could really get by with just shooting the hell out of people, in which case, you didnt need the Terminators if you could just bring more PAGK's with stormbolters and the occasional psycannon. Nowadays, its not the case. You cannot decisivly win an engagement in a turn unless you CHARGE it seems. Shooting has taken a large downturn in effectiveness considering all the cover saves out there.

I like using my terminators, because sometimes you've just gotta get in there and kick some serious a$$ in close combat. These are the guys to turn to when you need that sort of muscle. Throw a couple of t-hammers in there and its some extra 'oomph' and if you can spare the points and get creative with looking forward a turn, a holy relic on a justicar enhancing the terminators makes them even nastier.

The terminators also make a FABULOUS retinue for the GM if you're using one, which if you're really considering getting stuck in, I think you might have to. Look at what the GM can do for you. His Nemesis slays outright (not instant death of course, so Eternal Warrior is no defense vs his mighty weapon) so you can kill greater daemons with a single hit, lysander with a single hit, Calgar, Abbadon, Hive Tyrant, Daemon Prince, C-tan...whatever. When they strike back? They cannot target the GM because he's got 5 terminators as a RETINUE with him. He can really throw a wrench into the game plan of an opponent that underestimates the Grey Knight army...but he needs terminators to protect his high price cost investment.

Thats basically what I think about terminators. Would I like to scrap them to bring more PAGK's to the feild, more firepower? Yea, I would like to get rid of them. I'm not willing to part with the Hand to Hand ability they grant an army however. Nothing says "Get the he11 off me!" like a GM and 4 Grey Knight terminators do....well....except Nob bikers....!

targetawg wrote:
Second, what's your opinion on the foot-GK squad that stays in the back field, is he just out of place in a list like this

That depends on your opponent. You should be thinking more along the lines of "what if the flamers arent a good Idea against an opponent" or "What if I need more firepower", or "how ADAPTABLE is my army to different battlefeild situations?"

Building a Pure Grey Knight list isnt like building any other list. Our point costs are too much, are selections are limited, and we have almost ZERO variety. You arent going to be ultra-competetive with them...so attempting to do so is folly. You'll never go to a tournement and MASSACRE all five of your opponents...EVER.

What do we have going for us? Only the best basic marine in the game, and darn good terminators. The best looking Grey Knight lists are going to be boring looking. What is the str of the army? What is the str of the PAGK or TROOP choice. PAGK have fabulous maneuverability with their respectable shooting. WS 5 and STR 6 in combat with TRUE GRIT (essetially making them vets with no charge bonus). They're versatile. They're ADAPTABLE. If you fight CC better than me...I move away and shoot you. If you shoot better than me...I board my LR's and charge you. If you shoot better AND are better in CC than me, I move to extreme range and hope shrouding carries the day for me while I power a flank causing the elements of your army on the opposite side of the board to have little chance of targetting me due to range, then when you charge with fringe elements of your army I counterattack with all 1850 of my points on your single unit! (yes, it gets complicated)

I couldnt tell you how good your 8-man PAGK is until I see how well your army ADAPTS to different armies and tactics on the battlefield. I think at first glance your ranged firepower is a bit lacking, but in 5e ranged firepower isnt what it used to be. I can tell you right now that not many armies are going to be afraid or intimidated by 2 psycannons and six stormbolters. (more likely they'll be focused on the two LR's shooting at them) Perhaps you'll be able to run this list with enough precision to carry the day against multiple different armies.

I think your army as a whole is a good starting point. You will probably find that you will want to work with it, make adjustments, and possibly scrap everything and try something different. I dont like getting up in peoples faces with Grey Knights until they force me to. Thats the reason I dont run a Crusader, Incinerators, or two hero's. (you can bring Stern for a second hero) You've got a bit too much 'up close' stuff for my tastes, but the army looks like a sound starting point, and if you play smart, you should be able to win a good amount of games.

another note on the GM, go ahead and do it in your take-all-comers tournement list. It's only ten points, and its worth the look on Chaos players' faces.

Sacred Incense.

Ever killed Scarbrand in CC without even losing a single model?

....I had to go change my pants after that one.

I think GKTs are good but very expensive. I was testing allying some into a Sisters list to cover assaults since Sisters suck at assaults and they did alright serving as a good counter assault unit. Big problem is they are so expensive and not scoring and if you Ally them into Sisters you can't buy a Land Raider for them.

Why not go with all Thunderhammer and Stormshields for Strength 8 for killing Nobs?

frgsinwntr likes the on foot GK Squad on foot says the Stormbolters put out 2 shots at 24 and they are Str 6 in assault which are good for killing Horde Orks. Sounds good on paper and he says they are good.

I agree with Avariel that you should trim the 5 man GK incinerator squads to ISTs with flamers and give the Inquisitor a LR GKs are a stand back and shoot use your Storm Bolters and Shrouding. If you want to drive up and burn ISTs do that job cheaper or you could get allied Sisters in a Rhino.

This list is bland an not exciting at all. Inq is a waste of points.

Psycannons are so much better then incinerators.
Storm Shields only give you a 4+ save vs one target. 1 is ok but 2 is not. You have a Str 6 power weapon that hits rear armour.

I think 3 squads of 6 GK's are a better choice.

MauleedlovesYakeface wrote:This list is bland an not exciting at all. Inq is a waste of points.

Psycannons are so much better then incinerators.
Storm Shields only give you a 4+ save vs one target. 1 is ok but 2 is not. You have a Str 6 power weapon that hits rear armour.

I think 3 squads of 6 GK's are a better choice.

1) I didn't make it to excite you.
2) Inquisitor provides AT with his tank, and prevents deepstrike armies from getting too fresh. Im not convinced on his usefulness, but a deepstrike melta squad or two ruins a land raider lists day, he's there to prevent this. Im still not sure if he'll stay in.
3) Why are psycannons better? As my squads are mounted, disembarking and shooting 3 shots on a psycannon is far inferior (esp. for 15 more points) to shooting a heavy flame template
4) My Grey knight terminators wont be attacking armor let alone rear armor. Their can openers are for troops, not for trying to hack into a vehicle and then get mangled by shooting.
5) 3 Squads of 6 makes Deadshanes list, although I like his list, that playstyle isn't entirely mine. I'm a reactive player, but I also am on the more aggressive side of reactive. I want to sit back for a while, but then I like to slam into my opponent with a big hit turn to catch him off guard. I'll post up a variant with more flame I've been toying with as well.

Using the templates opens yourself to being assaulted.

G

1) A list should be fun in some way.
2) Being able to fire at a unit of 10 guys 2 melta's is not going to save you from those 2 guns. Only dumb people deepstrike in LOS to them. So putting the unit on the other side of a LR saves them from your Mystics.
3) Psycannons are better because they can kill vehicles and wound/kill Greater Deamons. This goes back to being bland. You run around inside vehicles. Not very GKish.
4) If your Termies are not attacking vehicles then why do you need Thunderhammers. To get a 4+ save vs shooting?
5) Who cares if you match someone elses list. 3 units of 6 is good.

2) Inquisitor provides AT with his tank, and prevents deepstrike armies from getting too fresh. Im not convinced on his usefulness, but a deepstrike melta squad or two ruins a land raider lists day, he's there to prevent this. Im still not sure if he'll stay in.

I like your Inquisitor, to suit your Spearhead (LRC) use meltagun Warriors. Wait at back for a while protecting your LR and backbone with mystics then suddenly form a spearhead with some perfect nut crackers. Though I don't really see DS marines as much as a threat that cant be dealt with any other means.
3) Why are psycannons better? As my squads are mounted, disembarking and shooting 3 shots on a psycannon is far inferior (esp. for 15 more points) to shooting a heavy flame template

I agree, simply Pyscannons don't do it.

4) My Grey knight terminators wont be attacking armor let alone rear armor. Their can openers are for troops, not for trying to hack into a vehicle and then get mangled by shooting.

Well actually theres nothing wrong with assaulting a tank aslong as it's like a brick wall, this way you'll be behind this big wall when it blows up.

5) 3 Squads of 6 makes Deadshanes list, although I like his list, that playstyle isn't entirely mine. I'm a reactive player, but I also am on the more aggressive side of reactive. I want to sit back for a while, but then I like to slam into my opponent with a big hit turn to catch him off guard. I'll post up a variant with more flame I've been toying with as well.

MauleedlovesYakeface wrote:1) A list should be fun in some way.
2) Being able to fire at a unit of 10 guys 2 melta's is not going to save you from those 2 guns. Only dumb people deepstrike in LOS to them. So putting the unit on the other side of a LR saves them from your Mystics.
3) Psycannons are better because they can kill vehicles and wound/kill Greater Deamons. This goes back to being bland. You run around inside vehicles. Not very GKish.
4) If your Termies are not attacking vehicles then why do you need Thunderhammers. To get a 4+ save vs shooting?
5) Who cares if you match someone elses list. 3 units of 6 is good.

1) I find the list fun, you don't. It's probably why you don't own it, and I do.
2) Thats my thought as well the more I look into it, It worked wonders in an AC I ran, but without the big turret mounted gun, not sure its worth it.
3) Psycannons are wasted at vehicles, glancing sucks nowadays, and 3 strength 6 shots won't do much of anything to a vehicle.
4) Only 2 armies field greater daemons. In a tournament setting, I try not to gear just for fighting greater daemons.
5) Your definition of "GKish" isn't everyone elses. I'm not even so sure you play them.
6) Strength 8 is good versus more than vehicles. How about insta killing expensive characters, multi wound models, monstrous creatures
7) Storm shields dont give you a 4+ save versus shooting, they only give it in combat. The new stormshields are the ones that give you a 3+ save against shooting and close combat.
8) I try not to make cookie cutter lists, also as I said, his list doesn't match my playstyle.

1. It's not a fun looking list. Driving around inside a vehicle all day. What fun is that? This is a "I have a hard vehicle to bust open so I'll abuse it."
2. The mystics are not that good with this army. Plus they are in a soft vehicle that can be done in with one shot.
3. There are a good amount of Armour 10 and 11 vehicles and Str 6 is great vs them. Also the weapon can move and shoot. It is way more useful then a flamer. Plus 6 shots vs 0 when a unit is outside flamer range is great. If your arguement is it ignores cover saves, you are telling me you are affraid of HTH. They ignore inv saves. So they kill lesser deamon, harlaquinns (spelling) and the like. It's also AP 4 so get a unit without cover and they die.
4. I put that out there so people would see that the old thunderhammer and shield are not good. Str 6 weapons are great for killing. Yes insta killing nobs is nice but hitting them before the power claw gets you is nice.
5. Taking a unit of GK with 6 guys isn't a cookie cutter list.

Troll elsewhere.

Your comments are unhelpful and lack insight into GK or 40k for the most part. Let it go.

Ignore.

Just a though, Hammerhand on the Brother Captain for Insta Kill on Warboss? and perhaps some other things.

targetawg

I've played DH for a long time. I know what works and doesn't work. I'm telling you the Inq is a bad idea. Take him out and beef up the other units.

Don't think I'm attacking you just because I think it's boring running around in 3 vehicles and only shooting with them.

Warboss is T5 base, so it wouldn't work on him. I've been thinking of just running a GM as of late as his force weapon is the best sort of instakill you could want.

Hrm. I'm really starting to think of just going back to my 4th edition GK list and seeing how it does, which also keeps me from having to buy 2 more land raiders (I normally just run one).

Can't you just take the Inq squad out and put him in the LRC with other BC?

You could then get out of the LRC and leave him 2" outside the squad to assault a second unit.